Finland considering giving every citizen €800 a month

[dowie]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...idering-giving-every-citizen-800-a-month.html

Authorities in Finland are considering giving every citizen a tax-free payout of €800 (£576) each month.

Under proposals being draw up by the Finnish Social Insurance Institution (Kela), this national basic income would replace all other benefit payments, and would be paid to all adults regardless of whether or not they receive any other income.

I am quite interested in seeing how well this works - could simplify a lot of things and remove plenty of the faff and general butt hurt surrounding benefits.... no need to worry about disability assessments or whether you've applied for enough jobs or remembered to turn of for meetings... you get the same fixed amount as everyone else, if you want more then you go out and get a job - which you're quite obliviously incentivised to do as you're not going to lose any of your basic income.

Tis unlikely to be introduced over here though - plenty of people on benefits, especially in the south east, would be taking too much of a hit

 

[Mynight]

£36,921,600,000 (per month)

That's an awful lot of money if the uk did the same. We couldn't afford that.

 

[Uther]

I doubt anyone in rented accommodation and no job would survive on that amount here. Is housing /cost of living so cheap in Finland, or are they going for the 'work or starve' system!

 

[Mr Jack]

It'll be interesting to see what happens. There are seriously problems with the prospect of withdrawing all benefits to pay for it, though, some people simply have higher needs.

 

[danielanthony]

Depends if they're going to have to tax those who bother to work €1600 each to pay for it.

 

[Mr Jack]

That's an awful lot of money if the uk did the same. We couldn't afford that.

Yes, we could. We'd just have to raise taxes but since you've now got a £576 base income, you could pay more taxes and still have most people end up better off.

Whether it's a good idea to do so is the point at issue.

 

[SciNeT]

£36,921,600,000 (per month)

That's an awful lot of money if the uk did the same. We couldn't afford that.

Surely that's a factor of 10 out? I might have it wrong!

 

[Destination]

It is interesting, do away with all forms of social care, and the departments associated with such, give a level to people, and expect them to make the rest themselves.
Granted, the overall benefit level is small compared to folks here on multiple child and working tax credits mixed with housing benefits are receiving, but it would be one hell of a voter winner with the middle and upwards.

 

[Flubble]

how are they funding it? everybody would be taxed £576 a month just to keep up with it?

 

[Mr Jack]

Surely that's a factor of 10 out? I might have it wrong!

I think it's slightly off since the Finnish system only pays to adults but it looks about right.

 

[Mynight]

Surely that's a factor of 10 out? I might have it wrong!

I hope not as my iPhone's got a bug .

64,100,000 population (2013) multiplied by £576. Admittedly I haven't accounted for children.

Yes, we could. We'd just have to raise taxes but since you've now got a £576 base income, you could pay more taxes and still have most people end up better off.

Whether it's a good idea to do so is the point at issue.

That's a good point but it's a hell of a hole to fill from raising taxes.

Don't we only raise around £650b a year in tax?

 

[Destination]

I think it's slightly off since the Finnish system only pays to adults but it looks about right.

Aye equivalent might be around 23-25 billion a month here.
Pensions and welfare roral about 210billion a year, so not a million miles away, just a massive redistribution in terms of where the money is ending up.
Frankly it would be an utter disaster for the UK to redisturbute so much so quickly.

 

[Mr Jack]

how are they funding it? everybody would be taxed £576 a month just to keep up with it?

Per capita income in Finland is €37,500ish, this costs €9,600 per capita, or just over 25% of that, but of course - if paid for equally - everyone below the mean income will receive more back than they pay in so the actual impact on income is lower than the cost and, because they're doing away with existing benefits a proportion of that cost is absorbed in other savings.

 

[Derek W]

I hope not as my iPhone's got a bug .

64,100,000 population (2013) multiplied by £576. Admittedly I haven't accounted for children.

For once , will someone please think of the children!

 

[SciNeT]

I hope not as my iPhone's got a bug .

64,100,000 population (2013) multiplied by £576. Admittedly I haven't accounted for children.

64,000,000 pop? I'm getting 5.5M

Edit, UK pop you mean... duh, you're quite right

 

[Mynight]

64,000,000 pop? I'm getting 5.5M

What uk are you living in?

Ergh sorry missed the edit .

 

[Abraham]

It's an interesting idea, and one that I think has been voiced for here when talking about benefit reform. I'd say to make it actually work here you would need to phase it out over x salary, which would free up some for the people who do need more (although obviously having any judgement on who deserves more is both costly and contentious)

 

[Mr Jack]

I'd say to make it actually work here you would need to phase it out over x salary, which would free up some for the people who do need more (although obviously having any judgement on who deserves more is both costly and contentious)

Why would that free up money? Why not just add 1% (or whatever) to the tax band to recover the money? Phasing it out is a needless complication.

I agree with you that a total replacement for benefits is not sensible because of differing needs.

 

[Jambo]

I doubt anyone in rented accommodation and no job would survive on that amount here. Is housing /cost of living so cheap in Finland, or are they going for the 'work or starve' system!

Maybe people who don't earn any money could make the sacrifice of sharing a home. Just sayin....

 

[Malevolence]

So that's equivalent to two weeks JSA per week, but with no strings attached?