Valuing a piece of land to sell to our neighbour

[Psycho Sonny]

Read the thread, shocked that the op is even entertaining the idea of selling. I get on with all my neighbours but I'd be telling them to do one if they came forward with this idea. Crazy!!

where is your "British" decency and civility?

don't you know you should let your neighbour just take your land for nothing? because that's what being "British" is all about?

 

[robjf]

See below, we did discuss this prior to him proceeding with planning permission etc!

So we are on good terms, he has planning permission, and approached us in advance of all of this. I have been clear since the outset that I was not sure of the value so would get back to him to which he was happy with.

He's a really nice guy and were on very good terms, he has been perfectly civil about everything and is not pushing us into anything!

 

[cadmunkey]

As was mentioned above... you don't need to own land to apply for planning permission to build on it.

But you do need to submit a drawing showing the boundary of the land. So he has obviously shown that the boundary encompasses the piece of land he now wishes to purchase from OP.
Send us the link to the planning portal reference number OP so we can see the planning drawings!

 

[lsg1r]

He's a really nice guy and were on very good terms, he has been perfectly civil about everything and is not pushing us into anything!

You could argue he is pushing you into it as he's had plans submitted and accepted on the presumption he's going to own that bit of land. You wouldn't go through all that if he didn't think he was going to get the land or could 'convince you to sell it'.

He might be coming across as all civil etc but have you considered that this is just a ruse to get what HE wants

Trust me, I know builders pretty well (my Dad is/was one) and some of the builders I've met along the time come across really nice but when it comes to 'business' (which doing an extension is as it adds value) they can be rather ruthless about getting what they want.

 

[Haggisman]

Never knew that - why would you go through planning costs/drawings etc for an extension on land you don't own......

You could look at it the other way round as well though, why go through the expense and hassle of buying some land that you may never get planning permission for?

I would guess (as I have no first hand knowledge) that the planning and design etc. costs are probably less than those of purchasing the land (maybe not in this case, but generally), particularly for a builder, who I guess could do the majority of the work themselves?

 

[lsg1r]

You could look at it the other way round as well though, why go through the expense and hassle of buying some land that you may never get planning permission for?

I would guess (as I have no first hand knowledge) that the planning and design etc. costs are probably less than those of purchasing the land (maybe not in this case, but generally), particularly for a builder, who I guess could do the majority of the work themselves?

I can understand it on things like 'plots of land' or things were it's 'subject to planning' but your neighbours land is a bit of weird one.

Having said that there are ways outside of council planning to get plans accepted although it does cost considerably more.

 

[robjf]

But you do need to submit a drawing showing the boundary of the land. So he has obviously shown that the boundary encompasses the piece of land he now wishes to purchase from OP.
Send us the link to the planning portal reference number OP so we can see the planning drawings!

Here you go: https://docs.derby.gov.uk/paserver/index.aspx?caseref=07/15/00865

 

[norm]

Why's the existing conservatory not marked on the proposed plans?

 

[lsg1r]

He's after more than 1m2.... the fence is being adjusted for about 4m.

The neighbour is actually gaining land as well as area for the building which would increase his property even more than just the extension - in essence he's got a no lose situation going on his side.

He's going to be building right up against your conservatory, is it a glass side next to the fence because if it is you'll be seeing a lovely brick wall if that's built. Not to mention access issues if you need to do repairs or fix damage from him digging out the foundations.

He would need to come onto your side based on those drawings and my understanding of foundation regulations....seriously this could cause lots of damage to your conservatory and house if done wrong. Those plans have been 'very cleverly drawn by the architect' to avoid showing this to you and other people. Norm, it wasn't shown as it's quite a negative for it getting passed because most people would complain about it.

This photoshop below is more accurate representation of how the final build will affect you
The area is highlighted by the blue text and arrow shows where I'm referring to.

http://imgur.com/mxvBfH4

I'll be honest here and say I wouldn't be selling my land to him for that design, I have no idea why he needs that shower/toilet off the dining room when they have a perfectly good toilet under the stairs, there's also going to be two dining rooms... so what's the original one going to be used for... loud entertaining perhaps?.

The actual finished build would impact on your house quite severely, not just in terms of interference with your house, but sellability, maintenance and noise after it's built.

If you did decide to sell your land I wouldn't be going any less than 15k-20k based on those drawings, I was saying 5-10k earlier but that design will have a much bigger impact that you in implied.

 

[robjf]

Thanks for all of your information, it's really helpful, especially that little photoshop you've done lsg1r - thank you. The conservatory isn't there now, it was pulled down as it was an old lean-to.

I think I need to put some more thought into this before we proceed, and as you say it needs to be worth our while in the long term.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

even at £20K I wouldn't do it.

He's taking a considerable size of your land. Building right next to your conservatory. As well as adding about 50% to the size of his ground floor.

Why does he need a downstairs shower? Is he planning on having a home gym? Is someone disabled going to be living on the ground floor?

There is no need for him to extend the existing dining room IMO he's doing it to make his house all flush and neat whereas at the moment it isn't. He's adding considerable value to his home.

The fact your willing to let him do it for £500 is laughable.

 

[LeeUK]

After seeing that plan, deal is off, if it was me.

 

[booyaka]

Totally agree after seeing those plans - that will have a considerable effect on your home now and in the future. I would suggest meeting with your neighbour and discussing the whole thing in more detail before even considering a price for the land.

He's taking the mickey at the moment - having planning permission and almost "assuming" your going to give him the land. Stand your ground for now and get him to explain why he wants you to effectively just hand over the ground to him.

 

[lsg1r]

Thanks for all of your information, it's really helpful, especially that little photoshop you've done lsg1r - thank you. The conservatory isn't there now, it was pulled down as it was an old lean-to.

I think I need to put some more thought into this before we proceed, and as you say it needs to be worth our while in the long term.

Ah... so the conservatory isn't there now then.

Bit of a random 'thought' here, I know you've said about doing your own extension, is it to replace the conservatory as this is something else to consider.
I know I said no to this earlier but seeing plans can give a different perspective.

Realistically the only time that 'bit of garden changing hands' would be useful is if you were to do a 'semi-detached' extension because you could use it to your advantage if you can afford to do it 'now'.. not sure if you need planning now, conservatives changed stuff for small extensions iirc.

You could match your rear extension to your neighbours and share the wall like you do now, keep the same roof angle etc as your neighbour and it would 'match' neater. Ideally it would need to be done at the same/similar time though so as a suggestion if you can afford it you buy materials and he does the labour (it would likely cost around 20k for labour if you hired someone). If you did go this route make sure you include financial clauses etc in regards to completion etc to be safe though.

Also that's made me think of another thing to consider if you do go ahead with selling.

Get in writing that if you decide to do an extension they would have no issues with you butting up to their extension (party wall agreement stuff iirc) and 'merging' your roof tiles, bricks (would look nicer if it went straight across the two properties), gutters etc with theirs to stop them being annoying later down the line. Semi detached houses can be a pita to do extensions on when they're but up against a neighbours property, especially when they've got what they wanted already.

 

[Defiant306]

Thanks for the responses. Though in hindsight it was a bit of a broad question with a lot of the context missing, I've now got a much better understanding of how to value it!

They're good neighbours and are very friendly but at the same time he stands to dramatically increase he value of his house, and as he's building it himself (retired builder) it's the noise and inconvenience - which has already been going on for a while.

I just don't want to break even after all solicitors fees if we end up with 6 months more noise at all times and have nothing to show for it. I'm inclined to see if we exchange it for some labour for him to work on our house instead as I'm sure he'd be much more understanding of that approach.

I agree with the other saying dont do it, your walking into a nightmare there that could leave you out of currency and friendship with your next door neighbour.

Sort it for cash currency and be done, you could also set conditions into the sale of the land around the development and building time of the extension if need be but they can make or break deals.

 

[Mat]

After looking at the drawings, if they're accurate, it does appear as though the fence is in an odd place.

My house and neighbour's have a very similar layout, with the fence going off at an angle (although I live in the rhs of the two) but it does go straight out from the house by a panel and a half before going at an angle. Also it looks as though the fence joins on his wall, rather than on the join of the two houses so is there grounds for a complaint there, from him?

What he's proposing with the fence does make sense to me but as other have said, there is a lot to consider both during and after any work he plans to do.

 

[norm]

Any update on this?

 

[roadie]

This is a very interesting thread. Just to clarify, you can apply for permission on land that is not owned by you if you complete the correct certificate on the application form, which has been done. If it were not, the application would be invalid.

Those plots are of an interesting shape. It is clear the neighbour has an enormous plot compared to the OP, but the shape of the boundary means the neighbour see a lot of fence to the rear.

It would be really interesting to see how this was concluded. Professional advice from a surveyor is the only thing I can think of.

 

[Steampunk]

+1

I don't know about anyone else but I serious value my good neighbours. Be reasonable.

Is it reasonable that a neighbour decides to build a big extension on someone else's land and expects to pay a pittance for it?

I think it's the builder that need to be reasonable.

 

[LeeUK]

How did this pan out?