84 Confirmed dead after another apparent terrorism attack in Nice, France,

Soldato
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That is exactly what happened in Syria where the Assad regime was in a stronger position than Saddam was in Iraq. It wasn't ISIS that destabilised Syria, but the FSA and various other Islamic groups. ISIS didn't grab significant territory in Iraq or Syria until the latter was already destabilised by civil war.

So yes, I think that if Saddam had not been toppled by the West he'd have been engulfed by an "Arab Uprising" in the Shia south (supported by Iran) which mirrored the Sunni uprising in Syria (supported by Saudi). This would have created the conditions to allow groups like ISIS to raise to prominence.

except they didn't and he was in power for 24 years, yes 24 years.
do tell who did take him out and created that vacuum.
 
Man of Honour
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Poor education obviously does not help but saying religion goes out the window with a bit of astronomy and evolution is just plain silly. Religion will always find a way to mould into a relevant believe to people. People make up religion for themselves and others. As it becomes more irrelevant, newer more relevant ideas replace them. The ideas may not necessarily be modern but they will suit the ideals the followers apply to them or they would not be followers.

Your whole post reads like the quote - "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him". (EDIT: Though apparently the wider context of that remark is a little different).
 
Man of Honour
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Please tell me you are joking. 'Their innocents' hate them as much or more than you do!

They have suffered from nutcases like that far more. If you want to join Isis but dont like their brand of religion, there is plenty of other extremist groups but at least keep your nutcase views off a tech forum.

Indeed - indiscriminately targeting innocents only tends to turn them towards the extremists and give the extremists more validation. Surgically employed another matter but if you are going to that amount of effort there are more effective and less morally reprehensible methods.
 
Soldato
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Your whole post reads like the quote - "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him". (EDIT: Though apparently the wider context of that remark is a little different).

Rather than necessary, more like an inevitability for good or bad.

Desperate people invent god and gullible people believe desperate people. If the religion becomes irrelevant to the point that the gullible no longer believe, the desperate change the god because they are desperate for it, then the gullible believe again.

It was more of a statement that taking away religion is not as easy as giving an education or killing all the nuts. Some people always manage to find a way to be stupid, even with education in their holster.
 
Soldato
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Not in anyway or form the way these attacks are being carried out no

I wont say anymore but all this political correctness is just burying souls end of.

We don't purposely take out their civilians because we are not barbaric animals like ISIS.
When we do take people out we don't use suicide bomb trucks because we have better methods and we aim to keep civilians deaths to a minimum.
 
Soldato
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What is all this pathetic eye for an eye talk going on here?

Lets kill innocent people in revenge for an attack on innocent people. Genius idea :rolleyes:

Even if the concept actually worked, if it could be proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that it would act as a deterrent - could you even consider such an action? I have no affinity for the human race as a whole, as a general rule is dislike people, but the idea of murdering the innocent makes me feel ill. Could you pull the trigger on an innocent person? Somebody who has done no wrong, somebody who just wants to get on with the life and make the best of it they can, just because somebody completely unrelated to them did the same to an innocent person in our part of the world?

Get a grip.
 
Soldato
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How many Arab Springs occured in that time? None. How long did the Assads and Gaddafi reign for?

Your argument seems to hinge on the idea that everything is constant.

mine is based on facts of what actually happened, yours is based on what you think would have happened.

you also failed to mention we played roles in both Libya and Syria.
 
Soldato
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I wont say anymore but all this political correctness is just burying souls end of.

You clearly dont understand who is involved in this conflict.

Who is 'their' civilians?

ISIS does not have civilians, it is a military extremist group. By their, you are either misunderstanding what Isis is or are referring to a certain people be race or religion. This is not a case of being politically correct, it is a case of being fundamentally correct.

Explain who their civilians are and what relation they have to ISIS and something might click for you.
 
Man of Honour
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You clearly dont understand who is involved in this conflict.

Who is 'their' civilians?

ISIS does not have civilians, it is a military extremist group. By their, you are either misunderstanding what Isis is or are referring to a certain people be race or religion. This is not a case of being politically correct, it is a case of being fundamentally correct.

Explain who their civilians are and what relation they have to ISIS and something might click for you.

Even if they have/had civilians the caliphate, etc. is bigger than any individual in their eyes and infact I believe many of the "true believers" subscribe to some prophecy about how most of them will die in a big fight or something before they prevail.
 
Soldato
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So just completely ignore my first point then? He is still a Muslim and its pretty apparent that his faith overruled any duty he had to his country.

and here lies a big part of the problem, we need to separate the religion from the terrorist or we label al Muslims extremists and marginalise them which leads to feelings oh oppression and hatred and oh yes radicalisation!

This man was a terrorist he may have used his warped version of a religion to justify it but that does not make him the mouth piece for the worlds Muslims he is the exception not the rule.

Giving ISIS credit for this attack gives them publicity and legitimisation it appears they had nothing to do with it other than the man declaring allegiance to them prior to the attack. Cut off there publicity cut off the notoriety and therefore cut off the flow of cash and recruits.

If we want to prevent home grown extremists we need to be reaching out to these communities not isolating them and demonising them they are the people who can help prevent/reduce this problem.
 
Associate
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Please tell me you are joking. 'Their innocents' hate them as much or more than you do!

They have suffered from nutcases like that far more. If you want to join Isis but don't like their brand of religion, there is plenty of other extremist groups but at least keep your nutcase views off a tech forum.

Wow tough crowd, you say something a little edgy and all of a sudden i've become an inbred bearded warrior that doesn't like bacon

Keep your personal opinions to YOURSELF and lighten up a bit, after all as already stated its only a "tech" forum why can we just all get along and talk about an i7 or something :/


Don't get me wrong these "people" are out of control and no amount of talking is going to stop this escalating. im now holstering my keyboard as its lunch time and i've got a few oranges to get thru before its over
 
Soldato
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Even if they have/had civilians the caliphate, etc. is bigger than any individual in their eyes and infact I believe many of the "true believers" subscribe to some prophecy about how most of them will die in a big fight or something before they prevail.

Yeah, seems like the ones causing the issues wont care if civilians get targeted.

I cant believe there are people like this in the modern world that would suggest killing innocents just because of their religion. That is what he meant by Their civilians, since ISIS does not have civilian members, it is a terrorist group not a country.

Wow tough crowd, you say something a little edgy and all of a sudden i've become an inbred bearded warrior that doesn't like bacon

Keep your personal opinions to YOURSELF and lighten up a bit, after all as already stated its only a "tech" forum why can we just all get along and talk about an i7 or something :/

Lighten up?

Oh you were joking? clearly not

You are suggesting religious genocide of innocents specifically. if that does not deserve a rebuke, i dont know what does. At least Hitler believed to an extent Jews did bad things behind closed doors, you would rather just target the innocents because, yolo?

There are Muslims on this forum, suggesting their death as a lets-try-it-out solution is pretty offensive.
 
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Soldato
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What is all this pathetic eye for an eye talk going on here?

Lets kill innocent people in revenge for an attack on innocent people. Genius idea :rolleyes:

Even if the concept actually worked, if it could be proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that it would act as a deterrent - could you even consider such an action? I have no affinity for the human race as a whole, as a general rule is dislike people, but the idea of murdering the innocent makes me feel ill. Could you pull the trigger on an innocent person? Somebody who has done no wrong, somebody who just wants to get on with the life and make the best of it they can, just because somebody completely unrelated to them did the same to an innocent person in our part of the world?

Get a grip.

The people who advocate genocide, ethnic or religious deportation are very similar to the ones who commit terrorist acts. The only difference is the latter have nothing to lose.

Take everything from the nutters who infest our society with their racism and xenophobia and they would soon turn to slaughtering innocents as well. They already took the first step through moral justification(Muslims are guilty even if they are not involved) they only need a nudge to take it further.
 
Associate
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When God whispers sweet nothings in people's ears there are no depths of evil they won't carry out or remain silent about. Nobody is safe, from their own family, to the rest of society.

You don't necessarily need to believe in god to believe in the afterlife. These kinds of generalizations is partly why there's so much hate.
 
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