Bought used car - broke down after one week

[[ASSE]Hinchy]

Afternoon guys, looking for a bit of preliminary advice please.

I bought a 2011 (61) VW Touareg Altitude with 42,500 miles at the end of October 2016. After one week, I was accelerating up a hill (after having pulled over to let a car pass on a single track road) and heard a clunk with the car losing all drive. The engine ticked over no problem but it would not engage a gear. It is an automatic gearbox.

The car came with a three month warranty and the dealer I bought it off came and collected it two days letter, leaving me with a courtesy car in the meantime.

I have asked the dealer for a refund, as because they have had it for two weeks and I have not heard anything there is clearly a serious problem and I therefore believe the car is not fit for purpose.

I have just had a call from one of the directors saying that something in the gearbox has sheared internally which can be caused by one of two things:

1. It has been put under extreme pressure
2. There was a fracture that was there in the past which has finally gone

This has concerned me greatly as from speaking to him, if it is number 2 then they are happy to talk about a refund. If it is number 1 then there is a case to be made for driver error e.g. car driven in off road mode with diff lock. If they believe it is driver error then the three month warranty would not apply.

This cannot be a driver error as I can only choose two modes - on road or off road. I have only ever been in on road mode and on the Altitude I don't believe it is possible to change the diff lock setting like you can on the Escape model which I've owned previously.

What are my rights here? I only had the car for 8 days and for 3 of them it was sat still on my driveway!

 

[Wizzkidy]

They are having you on. They are required to provide a full refund. They are just trying to pull a fast one like every company that has to give you back your money when something breaks within a warranty period.

 

[Squink]

You're owed a full refund. No ifs, ands or buts.

 

[MissChief]

Be polite but firm. Insist that they either repair/replace the gearbox/fault or give you a full refund. Two weeks without a car, especially one that's only four years old and hasn't done a large mileage isn't good enough.

Was it dealer stock/part of a large dealer group? If so it may be worth having a chat with head office. Bonus points if they have a Twitter/Facebook presence.

 

[Iron-man]

I think your normally required to give them at least 1 chance to make a lasting repair but certainly the blame does not lie with yourself, there is no way of them proving if it was either option 1 or 2 so they need to fix which I doubt they will do and would be surprised if the warranty covered it anyway as an auto gearbox is not cheap and normally the warranty's that come with second hand cars are not worth the paper

 

[[ASSE]Hinchy]

Was it dealer stock/part of a large dealer group? If so it may be worth having a chat with head office. Bonus points if they have a Twitter/Facebook presence.

It is a trader who advised me they acquire a number of Volkswagens from main dealers.

 

[Axeboy]

No to some of the comments above, the law changed recently and you can reject for a full refund.

"Under the new act, if a fault renders the product not of satisfactory quality, not fit for purpose or not as described, then the buyer is entitled to reject it within the first 30 days."

So, speed is the key here and record any comms properly as they will do anything not to refund I would expect.

 

[Armageus]

If you haven't already, have a read of these:

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/buying-or-repairing-a-car/problems-with-a-used-car/
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rig...car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights
https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/your-rights-if-something-is-wrong-with-your-car

Regardless of what the dealer says - within the first 30 days you are entitled to a full refund.

 

[[ASSE]Hinchy]

Axeboy - that was my understanding from what I have read too.

The concern though is that they are inevitably going to say that I caused the fault. Could they even prove that? Whenever I have read things and seen that I'm not entitled to something if I caused the fault, I have always read that as me having modified the exhaust, driven into a tree or scuffed the wheels on a kerb.

Even if I had my foot cast in concrete and floored it at the time, surely that could not be considered as driver error because the car wouldn't enable me to floor it if doing so presented a risk that the gearbox would fail. I am just struggling to get my head around how they could try and demonstrate it as driver error.

 

[Axeboy]

All they will do is play on fears and drag it as long as they can.

Be firm, in writing/email and request a full refund under the laws mentioned above.

Don't move in any way, don't give any info at all, put it all on them

Its a crap situation, really frustrating for anyone that has had these issues, but they know that and hope you will go away quietly.

 

[Big Spender]

Axeboy - that was my understand from what I have read too.

The concern though is that they are inevitably going to say that I caused the fault. Could they even prove that?

Even if I had my foot cast in concrete and floored it at the time, surely that could not be considered as driver error because the car wouldn't enable me to floor it if doing so presented a risk that the gearbox would fail. I am just struggling to get my head around how they could try and demonstrate it as driver error.

They simply can't. They're scaremongering and hope that you'll be someone that believes everything he hears and will crumble when they say it was your fault and they have to pay for it. As above you have 30 days from purchase to reject it. It broke after 1 week, they've had it for 2. I'd just go down the reject route now than wait for them to fix it, they will take as long as possible to do so, which will push you over the 30 days.

 

[Nasher]

I had a similar situation with a used Audi A3. Turbo exploded within the warranty period, they put a up a fight but in the end they had to pay for the £3000 repair/part. If you took it to court they wouldn't have a chance. All they are doing is wasting their own time and money fighting it.

Delay tactics won't work for them either, because it still occurred and they were notified within the warranty period.

 

[tom_e]

State in writing that you want to refuse it and receive a full refund ASAP, that stops the 30 day clock so when they stick their thumb up their bum and start rolling out the excuses thinking they can just drag it beyond that they'e stuffed.

 

[Big Spender]

State in writing that you want to refuse it and receive a full refund ASAP, that stops the 30 day clock so when they stick their thumb up their bum and start rolling out the excuses thinking they can just drag it beyond that they'e stuffed.

This. Send it in an email and also a written letter sent recorded signed for delivery.

 

[Drangueos]

I'm not sure that number 1 could happen, a car like this probably have some kind of protection against enganging off road mode on road, or some speed limit.

 

[[ASSE]Hinchy]

State in writing that you want to refuse it and receive a full refund ASAP, that stops the 30 day clock so when they stick their thumb up their bum and start rolling out the excuses thinking they can just drag it beyond that they'e stuffed.

So far I have stated in two emails that the car is not fit for purpose and I would like to cancel the purchase, return it to them and receive a refund.

Thank you for the responses/reassurances everyone. It is at least helping me to calm down after the phone call.

I think I'm going to write a letter to them just to assert my position.

Do you think I should return the courtesy car I have in the meantime? Tempted to go down there to do so and to have a chat to them face to face about things and hopefully be able to come back in the car I part exchanged with them. I see it is still on their stock list.

 

[tom_e]

I think I'm going to write a letter to them just to assert my position.

Do you think I should return the courtesy car I have in the meantime? Tempted to go down there to do so and to have a chat to them face to face about things and hopefully be able to come back in the car I part exchanged with them. I see it is still on their stock list.

I wouldn't, the fact you still have one of their cars should give them a bit more of a poke to get it sorted.

 

[Entai]

Axeboy - that was my understanding from what I have read too.

The concern though is that they are inevitably going to say that I caused the fault. Could they even prove that? Whenever I have read things and seen that I'm not entitled to something if I caused the fault, I have always read that as me having modified the exhaust, driven into a tree or scuffed the wheels on a kerb.

Even if I had my foot cast in concrete and floored it at the time, surely that could not be considered as driver error because the car wouldn't enable me to floor it if doing so presented a risk that the gearbox would fail. I am just struggling to get my head around how they could try and demonstrate it as driver error.

The only possible way they could find out if it was driver error or something wearing and slowly fracturing over time, would be to dismantle the gearbox and send the broken parts away for metallurgical failure analysis testing.

This could take a couple weeks or so and could run into the thousands in costs.

Obviously it would be totally down to them to pay for it to prove one way or the other what went wrong.

There is no chance they will go down that route, so just keep pestering for a full refund.

 

[[TW]Fox]

A driver error over the space of 3 days that would then manifest itself as catastrophic failure of an automatic transmission? Short of leaving it in Park whilst you towed it behind your motor home I can't think of many errors that could do that.

And I'd be amazed if any non-main dealer used car places had detailed technical understanding of the automatic transmission and differential locking system on a 2011 Touraeg.

It's a car. They get it in. They sell it. They move on. I doubt most places could even tell you the standard equipment level accurately.

 

[[ASSE]Hinchy]

The car was sent to a "gearbox specialist", though I don't know who that is. They're calling me in the morning with a conclusion from them but I know what they're going to say.

Spoken to a gearbox mechanic nearby who has said they're just trying to pull a fast one as they wouldn't be able to tell either way. Still pretty stressful.