US: Westworld

[Scrutinize]

There are almost too many possibilities with the plot at the moment from they are all dead and it's AI to its actually human bodies in use as hosts or human consciousnesses.

As for the techs given how the slashed neck was repaired this either means they are hosts or the tech works on humans hence its value.

 

[Jono8]

The maeve storyline is getting truly silly now : /

 

[subzero]

I think there may be 3 different timelines running in the story,William is the man in black in the later timeline,the man in black recognized the host who greeted William in the earlier timeline,when he and Teddy found her at the end of episode eight and was surprised she was still being used after all this time,which explains why no techs have picked up on Dolores going off script in the present day timeline.

 

[Jonny2284]

Or it's all one timeline where we've already been told Ford has been repurposing hosts and no-one is looking at Delores being off script because she's with a guest.

 

[subzero]

Dolores is still going off script in the present timeline because Ford is letting her go through with it because he wants to see where it is leading her,so he is letting her follow the course she took with William 30 years previous .

 

[v0n]

Or it's all one timeline where we've already been told Ford has been repurposing hosts and no-one is looking at Delores being off script because she's with a guest.

At this stage the same timeline would be disappointing - it would mean production crew was really sloppy with logos, memories and visual layers we've seen already, a lot of interactions would loose purpose and even by the reappearance of characters alone - "repurposing" theory works when the Greeter host that welcomed William into Westworld is found sitting in front of MiB at the camp fire in Wyatt scenario, however when Lawrence dies one minute in front of MiB and appears as El Lazo in fully fledged Pariah scenario in front of William in what would be merely minutes later, that would be just bad writing.

If there was to be a twist on the multiple timelines theory, I would hope it would be something clever - like - we've been watching two parks - two different games, with two copies of the hosts - a "beginner level" and "insane level".

 

[Vonhelmet]

Different timelines would mean the whole thing was really badly presented. If you're doing different timelines it needs to be obvious that they're different timelines. It's not something you can do ambiguously like this because it becomes almost meaningless. How can the audience be expected to keep track of and subsequently reinterpret a whole series of storytelling if it suddenly becomes apparent that things are occurring in multiple separate timeframes?

I can't think of another story that has used multiple timelines without making it clear that there are multiple timelines. If someone can tell me of one then I'm happy to learn.

 

[Vonhelmet]

when Lawrence dies one minute in front of MiB and appears as El Lazo in fully fledged Pariah scenario in front of William in what would be merely minutes later, that would be just bad writing.

I'm sure a night passed between his death and subsequent appearance, but I've not watched it back to check.

 

[v0n]

Different timelines would mean the whole thing was really badly presented. If you're doing different timelines it needs to be obvious that they're different timelines. It's not something you can do ambiguously like this because it becomes almost meaningless. How can the audience be expected to keep track of and subsequently reinterpret a whole series of storytelling if it suddenly becomes apparent that things are occurring in multiple separate timeframes?

I can't think of another story that has used multiple timelines without making it clear that there are multiple timelines. If someone can tell me of one then I'm happy to learn.

It's just a twist on "out of sequence" story telling device. It's presented without obvious transition - like Tarantino used to do in Pulp Fiction - the entire thing was out of sequence, the viewer could only understand how the multiple storylines tie together after they watched the entire thing. Granted those out of sequence storylines were only hours and days apart, but the principle is the same. It's utilising the fact that in the world of the faked time period, ageless hosts and costumes, neither can provide any anchor point to where we are in the narration to the viewer.

 

[datalol-jack]

Feels overwrought now. Two types of consciousness trying to escape in opposite directions; nothing is real; and nobody will be happy in the end. Could've just cribbed Ex Machina over the original film, and it would've been snappier. Hopkins got typecast again. Meh. For how many seasons do they plan to milk the idea?

 

[v0n]

For how many seasons do they plan to milk the idea?

Five. They have enough story twists for 50 installments, or so they claim.

However, they also claim season one will not end on cliffhanger or Lost-like "WTF" moment, and to be honest, as I said before - for it to work - for everything in at least three timelines to resolve and tie together and for the viewer to put the two and two together and go "aha - I get it now" - two episodes is just not enough time. It would have to be a ground breaking, super innovative visual "closure moment" like we've never seen before, and I just don't see it happening.

It's kind of weird - on hand there are moments of brilliance in this show like "what door" moment which is visually clever and settle enough for me to believe that they are capable of this glorious wrap up of epic proportions, but then I watch next episode and see obvious linearity errors in scenes, like basic level if-you-proof-watched-what-you-made-you-would-see-it-straight-away type of things - Bernards ever disappearing and re-appearing glasses between in-front and from-behind-his-ear camera angles in some scenes or like when Elsie finds the transmitter, talks on the phone and someone grabs her from behind. Cut. She's on stage, cut, she's on the main floor under the stage, cut, she's on stage again. Basic QC errors, really? And these guys are to go super-Memento on three time lines in final episode?

And those moments I think they either going to leave us high and dry in "are they, aren't they" suspense without answers until spring of 2018 (yup, not fall 2017) or they will crash and burn it into really unsatisfactory "you will need to read fan fiction about it" failed "tada!" moment.

 

[f3rr3t]

I'd say I have found this first series entertaining so far but think it was probably overhyped.

 

[datalol-jack]

Five. They have enough story twists for 50 installments, or so they claim.

However, they also claim season one will not end on cliffhanger or Lost-like "WTF" moment, and to be honest, as I said before - for it to work - for everything in at least three timelines to resolve and tie together and for the viewer to put the two and two together and go "aha - I get it now" - two episodes is just not enough time. It would have to be a ground breaking, super innovative visual "closure moment" like we've never seen before, and I just don't see it happening.

It's kind of weird - on hand there moments of brilliance in this show like "what door" moment which is visually clever and settle enough for me to believe that they are capable of this glorious wrap up of epic proportions, but then I watch next episode and see obvious linearity errors in scenes, like basic level if-you-proof-watched-what-you-made-you-would-see-it-straight-away type of things - Bernards ever disappearing and re-appearing glasses between in-front and from-behind-his-ear camera angles in some scenes or like when Elsie finds the transmitter, talks on the phone and someone grabs her from behind. Cut. She's on stage, cut, she's on the main floor under the stage, cut, she's on stage again. Basic QC errors, really? And these guys are to go super-Memento on three time lines in final episode?

And those moments I think they either going to leave us high and dry in "are they, aren't they" suspense without answers until spring of 2018 (yup, not fall 2017) or they will crash and burn it into really unsatisfactory "you will need to read fan fiction about it" failed "tada!" moment.

After Arrow, I swore not to touch a cash cow again. I guess I should've been more thorough in pre-reading all the hype. If they're too clever by half, they'll end up creating a need for actual recaps, 'previously on Westworld'. My bet is on a big drop at the end of Season 1 to set the fanfics flowing on social media, even if it doesn't make sense.

 

[Jono8]

Well I hope it is not going to end up trying to be too clever for its own good.

I will say one thing for it though - the music is sublime.

 

[datalol-jack]

Well I hope it is not going to end up trying to be too clever for its own good.

I will say one thing for it though - the music is sublime.

Ramin never fails, glad he moved away from bombastic fodder.

 

[easyrider]

Just watch The Crown on Netflix and see how it's done...

 

[Tombstone]

I'm still enjoying it, but I agree the Maeve/tech story is getting a bit hard to swallow now.

Yup, the Maeve storyline is single handedly ruining the show for me. Its total nonsense. There are so many ways that the techs could reset her that its just ridiculous to assume that they just have to go along with her plans and cant do anything about it.

 

[oldbag]

I stopped watching after about episode 3 or 4, I didn't care about any of the characters and the theme has been done to death over the years in other series and better and it this just seemed to meander and have really uninteresting scenes between the violence, which for me became a bit repetitive and meh because I didn't care about anyone.

 

[datalol-jack]

I stopped watching after about episode 3 or 4, I didn't care about any of the characters and the theme has been done to death over the years in other series and better and it this just seemed to meander and have really uninteresting scenes between the violence, which for me became a bit repetitive and meh because I didn't care about anyone.

Even with the original material, I found the premise of a 'western' park to be rather dull. Now, the chaps here seem to be building out an external world as well, with the androids being trained for a purpose (I hope they don't try to go all Blade Runner on us); but could you stand it long enough for the hooks to connect to meat in the plot circa season 3/4, let alone eps. 3/4?

 

[FortuitousFluke]

Yup, the Maeve storyline is single handedly ruining the show for me. Its total nonsense. There are so many ways that the techs could reset her that its just ridiculous to assume that they just have to go along with her plans and cant do anything about it.

You see I'm a little bit more sympathetic on this. I think one of the techs wants to help her as he's gone native in a William/Dolores kind of way. The other tech just appears to be an ineffectual coward who could have avoided all of this is he just had the guts to step up to the plate himself. I suppose my point is their actions are explained within the confines of their characters.

I still think it's the weakest thread in the show but my problem isn't around the fact that they could have stopped Maeve but didn't, and more about their reasons for doing it. I get Moron number one is morally conflicted, but I've seen terminator and everybody knows that this isn't going to end well. And if you were Moron number two, you'd surely spot that your colleague was conflicted and take the "don't worry bro, I got this" approach, instead of delegating responsibility only to watch him balls it up every single time.