Poll: We have a another OcUK Brexit poll boi!

[AHarvey]

I was remain, but now, I'm leaning towards leave just because of how the EU leaders have thrown toys out of the pram at the original vote.

Kind of sticking your fingers up at them now regardless of whether it's a good or bad decision

 

[p4radox]

the Fascist EU.

Talk about delusional...

because of how the EU leaders have thrown toys out of the pram at the original vote.

In what way?

 

[zom247]

Leave and still leave. However, I increasingly think "What's the point in voting anymore?". Not one politician can answer a straight forward question put to them without going off piste. At the moment there's not really one party that is winning me over but I'll still vote and make my mind up who to vote for at the time.

 

[Roar87]

In what way?

They do seem to have basically threatened us, especially the French. Merkel has actually been the most reasonable out of them all.

 

[p4radox]

They do seem to have basically threatened us, especially the French. Merkel has actually been the most reasonable out of them all.

But I'd like to know specifically what's meant by that.

If it's "no you can't have access to the single market without accepting the terms of every other member or paying for it" then I think it's a totally reasonable "threat". In fact I wouldn't even call that a threat.

On the flip side I think the UK has been the one threatening the EU with our "give us what we want or else we'll leave" rhetoric.

 

[Tummy]

They do seem to have basically threatened us, especially the French. Merkel has actually been the most reasonable out of them all.

I would argue they have responded in a similar manner to which they feel they have been treated to be honest.

 

[Slam62]

L and l

 

[Uriel]

Remain - but mainly on the basis that there didn't seem to be any kind of coherent leave plan. There still doesn't

 

[Avenged7Fold]

A lot of remain felt that there is a need for reform or change in the EU and that it will happen due to the right wing movements bubbling up in the eu. That being the first to leave or leaving without a plan at this point in time for the sake of ideology is reckless and expecting anything but economic and political speed bumps is wishful thinking.

 

[Mynight]

Remain and still remain. I trust the UK government even less than the EU.

As far as I can see everything that was promised for leave is falling apart. It looks as though we're heading for EU membership "lite" whilst getting the full benefits of an unchecked UK government .

 

[kindai]

But I'd like to know specifically what's meant by that.

How about Calais to start?

Or that Hollande has demanded the UK "pays a heavy economic price".

Or basically any eurocrat who has echoed mutterings they will not make Brexit easy or cheap.

If Brexit is such a fantastically bad idea, why do they need to make such comments? Surely just shake hands, smile, let us get on with it and once we go to the gutter and come crawling back they can dictate terms to us with a big fat "we told you so".

 

[Avenged7Fold]

full benefits of an unchecked UK government .

I must say that there are a few pretty scary threads about surveillance laws.

 

[The_Abyss]

Still up for leaving. The lack of stamps in my passport continues to be disappointing, and you have to travel so much further to get one these days. Voting leave seemed like a good way to fix that

 

[p4radox]

How about Calais to start?

The jungle has been closed.

In any case, threatening to move the camp to Kent or whatever is fair game as far as I'm concerned. The French are basically doing the UK a massive favour by holding migrants on their way to the UK. If the UK decides to leave the EU then the EU border moves into France.

I concede that this is indeed a threat, but it's one that hasn't actually been carried out.

Or that Hollande has demanded the UK "pays a heavy economic price".

Or basically any eurocrat who has echoed mutterings they will not make Brexit easy or cheap.

Which is fair enough. They're not under any obligation to be soft in the forthcoming negotiations, and as we're now finding out it pays to be part of a large bloc countries when negotiating deals. Ironic really.

If Brexit is such a fantastically bad idea, why do they need to make such comments? Surely just shake hands, smile, let us get on with it and once we go to the gutter and come crawling back they can dictate terms to us with a big fat "we told you so".

Because as we're now seeing, people can actually be easily fooled into making illogical decisions that are not in their economic interest.

I agree that such comments could backfire and increase negative sentiment toward the EU - but taken at face value they do offer an incentive for populations of other countries not to follow the same route.

 

[Roar87]

Remain and still remain. I trust the UK government even less than the EU.

As far as I can see everything that was promised for leave is falling apart. It looks as though we're heading for EU membership "lite" whilst getting the full benefits of an unchecked UK government .

It is checked though by General Elections, the electorate can vote out MPs if they're unhappy with the surveillance laws and vote in someone who says they'll scrap them. Or they can decide they're not bothered about those laws. Either way they are checked. I personally disagree with the surveillance laws, plus a few more

 

[Mojo]

Remain and still Remain here, the lack of credible plan for leaving the EU without totalling us economically and May's insistence that the Government needs no Parliamentary oversight in untangling them from X years of EU co-operation has left me feeling uneasy about our Country's future.

 

[prosk]

Yes, because if those points were actually as great as they sounded they may have carried more punch in the debate... oh wait...

Problem was, even call me Dave came back from the negotiating table knowing he had a crap deal, so when they tried to up-spin them... they got ripped to pieces.

It was a much better deal than any other country in the EU has. It was proof that the EU is willing to adjust if the need is strong enough and would have set a great precedent for the rest of the members to follow. They bent over backwards to make us happy and we gave them the middle finger.

The only reason the results of the negotiations were ripped to pieces is because he didn't get an outright ban on benefits to immigrants and full control of immigration, unrealistic expectations fueled by Farage and the media's populist rhetoric. But lets see you get a better deal with Brexit.

 

[p4radox]

They bent over backwards to make us happy and we gave them the middle finger.

I agree with this. It's amazing how we can see it this way, yet large swathes of the country appear to believe the opposite - that the EU is and always was somehow out to get us, and treated the UK unfairly.

 

[kindai]

Because as we're now seeing, people can actually be easily fooled into making illogical decisions that are not in their economic interest.

I agree that such comments could backfire and increase negative sentiment toward the EU - but taken at face value they do offer an incentive for populations of other countries not to follow the same route.

And that's exactly what is happening, every comment or snipe the EU makes towards making Brexit painful for us simply re-enforces the position that they simply refuse to listen, refuse to learn and refuse to change.

Making Brexit a "harsh deal" to make "an example" just shows what sort of institution you are dealing with. The fact they have to resort to make such threats/comments shows they are running scared. A country should not be held to economic ransom by the EU if they think they can do a better job without it. Instead the EU should be putting forward strong, reasoned deep hitting arguments to the UK on all the good things they offer us. But they do not, they sit on their laurels and simply focus on the negatives, re-enforcing them with more negative dialogue. No wonder people despise it. Just look at the last presidential elections in the US? "Yes we can" and "Lets make america great again". Positive messages.

All we got from the ******** group was negatives. The leavers gave people the hope of something better. When a group shouting the grass is greener can outshout the status-quo group because they can't put forward equally compelling arguments for the status-quo you know something is stagnant and wrong. Where were the positive messages from remain? Where were the big projects, and the messages of better things?

The only legitimate concern the EU has is that the UK may in fact do better outside the EU, and honestly, given how countries and pre-negotiations are already lining up to set up deals with the UK, who can blame them? They are so concerned by this that this is why they have resorted to playing hard ball, because if we do make a good go of it, others may join us and the Brussels gravy train will be over.

That is what the EU is scared of.

At the end of the day, you can put forward all the economic and scientific arguments you want, but the message needs to speak to the heart of the electorate to win. A fact, certainly lost on many many remainers.

 

[Mr Badger]

And that's exactly what is happening, every comment or snipe the EU makes towards making Brexit painful for us simply re-enforces the position that they simply refuse to listen, refuse to learn and refuse to change.

Making Brexit a "harsh deal" to make "an example" just shows what sort of institution you are dealing with. The fact they have to resort to make such threats/comments shows they are running scared. A country should not be held to economic ransom by the EU if they think they can do a better job without it. Instead the EU should be putting forward strong, reasoned deep hitting arguments to the UK on all the good things they offer us. But they do not, they sit on their laurels and simply focus on the negatives, re-enforcing them with more negative dialogue. No wonder people despise it. Just look at the last presidential elections in the US? "Yes we can" and "Lets make america great again". Positive messages.

All we got from the ******** group was negatives. The leavers gave people the hope of something better. When a group shouting the grass is greener can outshout the status-quo group because they can't put forward equally compelling arguments for the status-quo you know something is stagnant and wrong. Where were the positive messages from remain? Where were the big projects, and the messages of better things?

The only legitimate concern the EU has is that the UK may in fact do better outside the EU, and honestly, given how countries and pre-negotiations are already lining up to set up deals with the UK, who can blame them? They are so concerned by this that this is why they have resorted to playing hard ball, because if we do make a good go of it, others may join us and the Brussels gravy train will be over.

That is what the EU is scared of.

At the end of the day, you can put forward all the economic and scientific arguments you want, but the message needs to speak to the heart of the electorate to win. A fact, certainly lost on many many remainers.

Interesting post. Most of it seems fantastically wrong headed and yet I cannot deny the sad truth of the final paragraph.