Marrying cousins in the Pakistani community

[Dis86]

I'd have hoped common sense would prevail, clearly not.

Apparently it skipped you entirely. The result.of these unions can be severely disabled children. Hence the entire point of this thread. I don't know about you but I don't like people suffering from mental and physical disabilities especially where they're entirely preventable.

 

[Barham2016]

What's surprising about that?

A lot of people know their future partners since childhood. I know of couples who have known each other since they were like 5.

Thats very** Fully Star out all swearing ** up,

 

[linktoinsanity]

I'd have hoped common sense would prevail, clearly not.

You are clearly missing his point however.

 

[Yas786]

That's where you are wrong, I can give you examples where my first cousins have married each other and heir kids are perfectly normal.

Swings and roundabouts really.

What about the couples who aren't first cousins but have severely disabled kids?? What should we blame that on??

 

[Dis86]

That's where you are wrong, I can give you examples where my first cousins have married each other and heir kids are perfectly normal.

Swings and roundabouts really.

What about the couples who aren't first cousins but have severely disabled kids?? What should we blame that on??

And here folks is a prime example of someone who has no clue what he's talking about and why we have this issue in the first place.

 

[asim18]

Thats very ****** up,

Why?

Maybe you have misunderstood. They weren't a couple at 5, lol. They have merely known each other since 5.

Ask a married couple in their 50's, "how long have you known each other", their answer has a fair chance of being "since school".

 

[Terminal_Boy]

There was a good documentary on this a few years ago, a BBC one I think

3% of the UK population accounting for 30% of the UK's congenital birth defects due to first cousins breeding for successive generations was the general gist IIRC.

 

[merlin]

What about the couples who aren't first cousins but have severely disabled kids?? What should we blame that on??

There's no need to 'blame' anyone for just bad luck.

Blame attaches only when substantial risks (of having children with serious problems) are identified and presented to the couple. That's not the case in your example, that's just bad luck, big difference.

In this school in question there's brothers and sisters in pretty awful conditions - brain tumours, issues with limbs etc. That's the net result of cousins marrying - ignoring general advice to not have children - first child comes along with serious problems so then they try again, which results in a repeat of the first - then they'll even try a third time.

 

[Minstadave]

That's where you are wrong, I can give you examples where my first cousins have married each other and heir kids are perfectly normal.

Swings and roundabouts really.

What about the couples who aren't first cousins but have severely disabled kids?? What should we blame that on??

Yeah this isn't how risk works.

The anecdote "I know a smoker who lived to 90s and ran marathons but a non-smoker died of cancer in their 40s" - doesn't mean smoking isn't bad. Same applies to your anecdote.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Snip

What is classified as a substantial risk in terms of statistics though.

What about the morality of holding genetic carrier couples responsible. If they know they are carriers that increase the chance of risk but not substantially, say 1/1000 compared to 1/5000, would you hold them responsible?

I personally dont agree with first cousin marriage but if the aim was to lower the chances of birth defects, then you would apply it to non related couples who are genetic carriers. Where would you draw the line?

 

[Minstadave]

What is classified as a substantial risk in terms of statistics though.

What about the morality of holding genetic carrier couples responsible. If they know they are carriers that increase the chance of risk but not substantially, say 1/1000 compared to 1/5000, would you hold them responsible?

I've not suggested holding anyone responsible

Or were you replying to Merlin?

 

[Avenged7Fold]

I've not suggested holding anyone responsible

Or were you replying to Merlin?

Quote added, was replying to merlin.

I agree with the stance of minimising risk but if that is the purpose, the purpose has to be applied elsewhere. What about people who lead a happy and relatively normal life with a minor defect, would they be held accountable if they wanted to procreate and the baby had a disability?

 

[Elrein]

Most of the Saudi trainees i worked with (use that word "work" very lightly as they wouldn't know what it means) were married to their 1st cousins

Its all about the exchange of money a f all to do with what the institution of marriage is....

 

[Ace Modder]

Well it isn't just this culture. I worked with a couple who were married and had two kids. I found out after a while they were cousins. They were open and honest about it, never tried to hide it at any point.
They did go for lots of tests during both pregnancies, they understood the risks (not sure what they would have done if something was found though)

They were both White, English, and decent upstanding people. Legally they haven't done anything wrong. In the animal world I'm sure many animals cross breed with their own siblings etc.

Personally I would never form a relationship with a cousin etc, but they did and they were fully aware of the risks and dealt wiht them accordingly.

They were educated, this is the only difference between the people in the OP and the ones in my post here, lack of education and/or heads buried in the sand.

 

[StriderX]

Nice of you to apply factors willy nilly. Who said anything about being forced? It's arranged marriage. I've been offered arranged marriages, I simply ask them if they're having a laugh and it's the end of it. Arranged doesn't automatically mean forced.

The concern was that he was 11. To which the logical retort was that many people meet their future wife even younger than that. Not that he was being forced. Why bring an extraneous factor to back yourself up?

At eleven years old?

That's the point, at that age you just do what your told and it normalises. That this is just what you're supposed to do to be in that culture/family. I don't believe my parents ever told me even the slightest suggestive **** like this for marriage, It's evil and needs to stop along with a great many other archaic cultural motives.

 

[TS7]

What intrigues me most about this is the family dynamics would be so unorthodox / bizzare. Your cousin becomes your husband, your aunt becomes your mother in law, your other cousins become sister / brother - in - laws. You're also not introducing a new family each time someone gets married so the family circles must be so small? What happens when it doesn't work out and there's divorce - the amount of animosity

 

[Minstadave]

What intrigues me most about this is the family dynamics would be so unorthodox / bizzare.

You're also not introducing a new family each time someone gets married so the family circles must be so small? What happens when it doesn't work out and there's divorce - the amount of animosity

The family dynamics are the same as they have been for generations.

Not introducing a new family is the point - keeps wealth within the family.

 

[asim18]

At eleven years old?

That's the point, at that age you just do what your told and it normalises.

Can you elaborate.

What "At eleven years old?" What do you think they're doing at 11? The original poster simply said "MEET". I'm guessing they will meet each other and they will probably have a completely innocent friendly cousin to play around for a couple weeks holiday and that's that.

No one has said anything about them getting married or engaged at 11. Anything extra which you assume will happen at this mere "meeting" is only a figment in your head I'm afraid.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

I agree it is wrong to an extent to normalise a part of a culture of which contradicts the culture which he is around and will continue to be around. If he resigns himself to that sort of life before he is old enough to make an unbiased choice himself, then it is unfair as the choice to marry the girl was taken away far before that. Having said that i wont accept that all arranged marriages have choices taken from the kids, like my example of my colleague that always had the suggestion of arrange marriage from a child. What put him off the idea was that the decision felt taken from him so he went the complete other way and was an absolute party animal until he got bored of it.

Anyway, i think the arranged marriage part of this is going OT.

 

[Kanpai]

Apparently it skipped you entirely. The result.of these unions can be severely disabled children. Hence the entire point of this thread. I don't know about you but I don't like people suffering from mental and physical disabilities especially where they're entirely preventable.

Then that's something they have to deal with, should the situation arise from their actions.

The point I'm making is if it's in their beliefs to marry their cousins then so be it, let them live with the consequences.

Nothing in the world is preventable, ultimately.