Labour Tax Dodgers "Advert"
- Thread starter spoffle
- Start date
Soldato
I've heard this before but have seen zero evidence that it actually increased intake. There was an £8bn increase when the rate was dropped. £6bn of that was caused by deferring which means £2bn actual increase. The stamp duty is also another one that have failed miserably.
Caporegime
You've got your sums wrong. The £8bn is the gap. A £6bn deferral would produce a £12bn gap because it would reduce one year and increase the other.
New Labour would never have released an advert that's literally just a bloke putting on a suit. That's why New Labour won enough votes to be elected three times (including from the middle classes which Corbyn Labour loves to demonise), whereas Corbyn Labour is driving the party to the brink of extinction.
Caporegime
It's the same kind of "blame these guys, they cause all your problems" rubbish, certainly.
Expect the Labour party has been doing it for much much longer
Soldato
Labour losing the grip and spamming dressed up lies to make up for lost ground.
I honestly thought with Corbyn they might get some traction, I'm a conservative at heart but willing to change based on what's best for the UK and who genuinely has the best policies.
Same as Brexit from both sides, pure ****ing lies fed to the masses to win votes. Theres a reason comments have been disabled on that vid.
I honestly thought with Corbyn they might get some traction, I'm a conservative at heart but willing to change based on what's best for the UK and who genuinely has the best policies.
Same as Brexit from both sides, pure ****ing lies fed to the masses to win votes. Theres a reason comments have been disabled on that vid.
Whilst I'm sure there are some 'super-rich' who manage to either avoid or evade paying taxes, the vast majority of those whom labour demonise in tosh such as this are paying their full due under PAYE just like everyone else.
Nearly 60% of total income tax revenues are paid by the top 10% earners, and over 25% comes from the top 1%.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ncome_Tax_Liabilities_Statistics_May_2016.pdf
Nearly 60% of total income tax revenues are paid by the top 10% earners, and over 25% comes from the top 1%.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ncome_Tax_Liabilities_Statistics_May_2016.pdf
Associate
Well goddamn the whistling in that ad was annoying. I found it amusing the section about a £10 minimum wage taking away fat cat profit from low wages, which have been compounded since Labour brought in the working tax credit to top up pay from tax payers money.
Soldato
Is this like where the Torys say if they cut all benefits then all the problems of the country will go away. Same difference.
Man of Honour
But out of interest, what proportion of the wages are those two groups being paid? Because without that bit of information your statistic is useless.
Arguably its worse than useless as it appears to ignore the disproportionate affect of indirect taxation on lower paid workers, only giving detail of income tax, it also seems to ignore those on relatively lower incomes taking remuneration through other means such as dividends bonus schemes etc, which is really the heart of the discussion.
Well, according to the same document, the top 10% of earners accounted for around a third (34.5%) of all income in 2013 (whilst paying 60% of total Income Tax), and the top 1% accounted for 12.6% of income (whilst paying 25% of total Income Tax).
Sure - other taxes are relevant as well, however high earning deciles generally pay more of that as well ( see https://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/bns/BN_182.pdf ) . VAT (arguably one of the least progressive taxes) only accounts for 18% of total tax revenues.
It's a bit selective to point out vat is 18% of total tax take without accepting that income tax is 27% and that with other forms of indirect / not means tested tax you are near parity.
Similarly you are ignoring the point, tax avoidance and evasion for high earners is a major issue, whilst those who post large incomes are paying large income tax (as the system is supposed to be) how representative of earnings that is, is rather the point of the discussion. That is without considering corporate avoidance and evasion.
Squandering of money by the government is the problem, not rich people not paying "enough" tax.
best analogy i've ever seen.
"uppose that once a week, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this...
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay £1.
The sixth would pay £3.
The seventh would pay £7.
The eighth would pay £12.
The ninth would pay £18.
And the tenth man (the richest) would pay £59.
So, that's what they decided to do.
The ten men drank in the bar every week and seemed quite happy with the arrangement until, one day, the owner caused them a little problem. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your weekly beer by £20." Drinks for the ten men would now cost just£80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free but what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share? They realized that £20 divided by six is £3.33 but if they subtracted that from everybody's share then not only would the first four men still be drinking for free but the fifth and sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.
So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fairer to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage. They decided to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.
And so, the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (a100% saving).
The sixth man now paid £2 instead of £3 (a 33% saving).
The seventh man now paid £5 instead of £7 (a 28% saving).
The eighth man now paid £9 instead of £12 (a 25% saving).
The ninth man now paid £14 instead of £18 (a 22% saving).
And the tenth man now paid £49 instead of £59 (a 16% saving).
Each of the last six was better off than before with the first four continuing to drink for free.
But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got £1 out of the £20 saving," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got £10!"
"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a £1 too. It's unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!"
"That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get £10 back, when I only got £2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"
"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "we didn't get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next week the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important - they didn't have enough money between all of them to pay for even half of the bill!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy and they just might not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible."
"uppose that once a week, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this...
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay £1.
The sixth would pay £3.
The seventh would pay £7.
The eighth would pay £12.
The ninth would pay £18.
And the tenth man (the richest) would pay £59.
So, that's what they decided to do.
The ten men drank in the bar every week and seemed quite happy with the arrangement until, one day, the owner caused them a little problem. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your weekly beer by £20." Drinks for the ten men would now cost just£80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free but what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share? They realized that £20 divided by six is £3.33 but if they subtracted that from everybody's share then not only would the first four men still be drinking for free but the fifth and sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.
So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fairer to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage. They decided to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.
And so, the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (a100% saving).
The sixth man now paid £2 instead of £3 (a 33% saving).
The seventh man now paid £5 instead of £7 (a 28% saving).
The eighth man now paid £9 instead of £12 (a 25% saving).
The ninth man now paid £14 instead of £18 (a 22% saving).
And the tenth man now paid £49 instead of £59 (a 16% saving).
Each of the last six was better off than before with the first four continuing to drink for free.
But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got £1 out of the £20 saving," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got £10!"
"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a £1 too. It's unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!"
"That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get £10 back, when I only got £2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"
"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "we didn't get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next week the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important - they didn't have enough money between all of them to pay for even half of the bill!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy and they just might not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible."
the majority of high earners will be PAYE, tax evasion re: income tax is a bit difficult for most salarymen unless their employer actively encourages/facilitates it for them (which is rather rare but can happen)
self employed people/company owners have a lot more leeway to evade or avoid tax - though this doesn't just include the highest 50% bracket but also tradesmen/small business owners in the 40% bracket etc.. The govt can perhaps crack down further on say IT contractors with things like IR35 and their income is generally going to be all taxed one way or another. There isn't as much they can do about the builder who accepts cash in hand for some jobs, bit harder to police/catch.