Shots fired outside parliament - Please refrain from speculative and antagonistic posts

[doodah]

So in a decade we have:

Deaths caused by Islamic Extremists = 5
Deaths caused by mentally ill people = 870

I think if we really care about saving lives and making our streets safer we need to be investing more time and money on the latter, this is just common sense!

Do you have a source for that please? Thanks.

 

[Mr.E.]

Sorry, not the VC, I meant the GC. The GC award states it's for the following.

acts of the greatest heroism or of the most conspicuous courage in circumstances of extreme danger.

What did he do that was heroic ?

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Knew the suspect was a male. When we will be able to deport all males and send them back where they came from.

Send them back to Kent?

Kent-born Masood

 

[Deleted member 66701]

dbl post

 

[C.R.A.Z.Y]

Do you have a source for that please? Thanks.

Patients with schizophrenia, psychosis or other disorders committed a total of 870 homicides across the UK between 2004 and 2014, which was just over one in ten (11%) of all killings in that time.

But the total number of homicides carried out by patients fell over the 11 years covered by the National Confidential Inquiry into Suicide and Homicide by people with Mental Illness (NCISH). There were 87 such killings in 2004 and 94 the year after, but that had fallen to 67 in 2014 – a decline of 27% over the decade studied by researchers from Manchester University who undertook the inquiry.

However, killings by mental health patients are not falling as fast as the overall drop in homicides. The 27% fall is less than the 37% drop seen in the latter. As a result the proportion of all killings committed by such patients has risen from 9% in 2001 to the 11% seen in recent years.

Source = https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/oct/06/number-of-killings-by-patients-being-treated-for-mental-health-problems-falls

 

[Orionaut]

77 in just one incident? Anders Brevik? We could start adding up individual attacks, such as Thomas Mair. Interestingly, it's only the far right that have actually killed an MP.

Cue discussion regarding the different motives and reasoning behind "Political Assassinations" and general random acts of terror.

(Not that it makes much difference to the victims mind )

 

[robfosters]

What did he do that was heroic ?

I think standing up to and losing your life to protect the public from an armed maniac when you're unarmed is pretty courageous stuff tbh.

 

[Dis86]

So in a decade we have:

Deaths caused by Islamic Extremists = 5
Deaths caused by mentally ill people = 870

I think if we really care about saving lives and making our streets safer we need to be investing more time and money on the latter, this is just common sense!

Can't stop people becoming mentally ill. Can stop islamics

 

[Hotwired]

I think standing up to and losing your life to an armed maniac when you're unarmed is pretty courageous stuff tbh.

I'm pretty sure someone pulling a knife on you and stabbing you to death doesn't make you heroic.

But it has happened many times before that you don't get a medal for your actions or lack of but how it gets portrayed.

 

[Akagi]

You can and can't stop either. It depends on a lot of things.

 

[C.R.A.Z.Y]

Can't stop people becoming mentally ill. Can stop islamics

But you can stop them from being on the street and murdering 870+ people

 

[Orionaut]

I think standing up to and losing your life to protect the public from an armed maniac when you're unarmed is pretty courageous stuff tbh.

It is a difficult one really. Like with the military VC, the GC is really for acts of heroism that go above and beyond the normal call of duty. So while dying in the line of duty certainly deserves some sort of recognition. doing so does not, in itself, warrant a GC.

 

[Mr.E.]

I think standing up to and losing your life to protect the public from an armed maniac when you're unarmed is pretty courageous stuff tbh.

What about this PC, did he get one ? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/23/police-officer-stabbed-bow-east-london
Or any of the soldiers who've died in the line of duty, do they get one too ?

 

[Dis86]

But you can stop them from being on the street and murdering 870+ people

How do you know when someone is going to suffer illness? If you have this great gift then why aren't you using it?
You can't jail someone for being unwell if they are identified. Heck if that was the case some of our forum members here would be unjustly locked away.

 

[CREATIVE!11]

Erm comparing mental illnesses to a religeon now are we?

Seen it all. More people die in car accidents than plane accidents, so don't worry guys just skip the safety checks.

 

[jsmoke]

I think standing up to and losing your life to protect the public from an armed maniac when you're unarmed is pretty courageous stuff tbh.

Doesn't need to be courageous imo, they are well trained, pretty well paid, very well protected, enjoy their high status, don't really expect this in a lifetime and he probably had no idea he had a knife, would have been over in a flash. Many other definitions of courageous also. Statistically speaking I would imagine a police officer is still a very safe profession. Now the verbal abuse they can take is another matter, I certainly couldn't take it.

 

[Orionaut]

But you can stop them from being on the street and murdering 870+ people

We used to have assylums for chronically mentally ill people. (Internment if you like )

Shutting them in favour of "Care in the Community" was one of Thatchers bigger mistakes.

I should point out that I had a friend some years ago who was schizophrenic so I do have some personal experience of this. The problem with CITC is that many schizophrenics are intelligent and thoughtful people. The Meds have appalling side effects and, as a consequence, the patients cannot be relied upon to keep taking them (I like "Spesh", but if I was compelled to shotgun a four pack every morning for breakfast I would rapidly come to hate it with a vengeance. Anti-psychotics are like this but much much worse! )

 

[Darg]

Erm comparing mental illnesses to a religeon now are we?

To be fair, religious extremism is a mental illness. No sane person would do what these people do.

 

[Dis86]

To be fair, religious extremism is a mental illness. No sane person would do what these people do.

Got a source for that? Just because someone does something you wouldn't doesn't mean they are ill

 

[Andy90]

What about this PC, did he get one ? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/23/police-officer-stabbed-bow-east-london
Or any of the soldiers who've died in the line of duty, do they get one too ?

Or Pc Fiona Bone and Pc Nicola Hughes?

The sad reality is that Police Heroism often goes completely unrecognised. The Queens Police Medal can be given for Gallantry, although it is more often given for 'meritorious service' to Chief Constables and ACPO ranks for 'services to Policing'. The QPM for Gallantry can be awarded Posthumeously but according to Wikipedia has not been awarded since 1977. Apparently there is another award the Queens Gallantry Medal, which can be awarded when the action does not warrant the George Cross.

As for Soldiers killed in the line of Duty, scandalously it wasn't until fairly recently that a new award, the Elizabeth Cross was instituted. This isn't a Decoration, but is a Commemorative Emblem given to the Next of Kin by the Monarch. It is given to members of the Armed Forces killed in the Line of Duty or as a result of Terrorist activity since World War II. In my opinion the recipients should be widened to include Ambulance, Fire and Police Staff also killed in a Terrorist activity.

Having said all that, I strongly suspect that Mrs Palmer and her children would gladly refuse a trillion medals to have him back. May he and the rest of the victims RIP.