Destiny 2

Soldato
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04G1D5CVTKk

Looks like a better version of the current hybrid system on Destiny 1 is coming to Destiny 2. The part about matching people around the world I call BS on. I have a good experience with servers when doing that, also if you think logically a server with extremely fast and stable internet as a host is always better then a persons ****** internet that will have packet drops, I hear this excuse a lot from other Destiny players but Playing Overwatch with people from US/South America, Asia I've not once seen any lag.
Hmm, I feel like all of the crucible should have been put on dedicated like the raid and trials, which irks me because that must have been a cost consideration only despite them saying otherwise.

edit: Might have read that wrong from their update. They do say every activity and then use the raid and trials as examples, so that should include all crucible matches right?

I understand what they say about immediacy, you don't get your character rubber-banding in Destiny because of their network model, but it doesn't make the other plays banding about any less frustrating. I feel that Destiny's network architecture has always been really upload intensive. I remember in the early days I couldn't complete a 6v6 match, my upload speed on regular Max ADSL couldn't maintain the sync. I put that down to the amount of data Bungie were collecting on its player base.
 
Soldato
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Someone did some research on Reddit awhile back and the outcome was you need a solid 1mbit upload for 6vs6 games.

Also I would have to agree, it seems like cost saving. A typical server based networking system has almost no down side to the player.

1) Playing with friends that are far away is way better on a server then a P2P host.
2) Server being the source of truth means someone lagging is localised to them and they will do horrible, not top the leader board like it current happens
3) Population matters way less. Titanfalls 2 is not that popular, often the numbers are like 30k players online or some ****, however I've never had an issues starting a game, or had lag.

I guess well see with D2, I really wanted them to just stop with this half way house of crap and go all in on servers but thats not happening now.
 
Associate
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raid and trials are also P2P, just better due to everyone in raid team being together and only 6 players vs 12 in crucible

Reason we know, days of crota lan cable unplug, Host unplugs cable, stops sending information to other clients and keeps him down :)

looks like same system in call of duty, easy to check anyway once beta out on PC, or maybe delay pc beta so no-one finds out its all ******** :D

if they have server doing cloud stuff, why game only 30FPS? They said its 30FPS due to amount of CPU work due to lack of servers?
 
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Soldato
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They never said it was due to a lack of servers. Honestly I think the engine is not as optimised as it could be, and with D2 its just an bit of an upgrade and not really re-worked. I don't ever expect to so 60fps on consoles.
 
Caporegime
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Hmm, I feel like all of the crucible should have been put on dedicated like the raid and trials, which irks me because that must have been a cost consideration only despite them saying otherwise.

edit: Might have read that wrong from their update. They do say every activity and then use the raid and trials as examples, so that should include all crucible matches right?

I understand what they say about immediacy, you don't get your character rubber-banding in Destiny because of their network model, but it doesn't make the other plays banding about any less frustrating. I feel that Destiny's network architecture has always been really upload intensive. I remember in the early days I couldn't complete a 6v6 match, my upload speed on regular Max ADSL couldn't maintain the sync. I put that down to the amount of data Bungie were collecting on its player base.

To be honest, either which way, as long as the new system they're proposing is better than D1 everybody will be happy.

What people won't be happy about, is losing the 6 v 6 clash and control modes. These are great casual game modes that the fan base won't want to lose. I'll happily take a 4 v 4 defuse mode as a slower paced more tactical format, but don't take our 6 v 6 casual modes off us !
 
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Soldato
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To be honest, either which way, as long as the new system they're proposing is better than D1 everybody will be happy.

What people won't be happy about, is losing the 6 v 6 clash and control modes. These are great casual game modes that the fan base won't want to lose. I'll happily take a 4 v 4 defuse mode as a slower paced more tactical format, but don't take our 6 v 6 casual modes off us !
It does seem weird to me. I think the one thing everyone agrees on with Destiny is that the game mechanics, the gun play, flow of combat, all felt fantastic. Why change to fewer players and a slower pace when the audience really likes that aspect? I hope it's not just to cover up the network model issues. I'll reserve judgement for the beta, but it was disappointing to see 6v6 go missing.
 
Caporegime
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I think that as well. I can see no other logical reason for making it 4v4.

they have always wanted destiny to be a competitive game and with 6's people can go missing. 3's is their trials mode so 4's is going to be basically a mix of both but edging on the more competitive side.

they have done huge changes to revives, special weapons and ammo. there was even a bit where they let all the streamers (top players) come and play the beta version and they used snipers and were wiping the other team out. the developers said if you keep this up we will need to nerf snipers even more and they have already pretty much nerfed them into the ground already. this shows you the thinking of bungie.

bungie want you to play the game their way. not the way you want to. people will say adapt to a primary meta. but primary metas change too. atm we are back to hand cannons in Destiny 1. where if you aren't using palindrome or eyasluna on a short range map your at a disadvantage. auto rifles never really had a meta apart from before the first patch. pulses reigned for a while in year 2. so it's not as simple as get good with primary because some people like using auto rifles yet you can't because it's not a meta weapon. bungie want you to play their way with their rules and whatever weapons they want to be powerful at that moment in time. they for some reason don't like snipers it must not have been within their vision for it to become a sniping game so they are doing what they can to effectively get rid of them as much as possible.

i also believe it's to help fix lag too but i think they wanted to completely re-do the crucible. destiny 1 was all a big beta. destiny 2 is the game they wanted i imagine. it wouldn't be that hard for instance to do a quick bandwidth test when your loading in. then stick everyone with high bandwidth in the upload department into say a host category. where they are singles out to host pvp matches. it would make matchmaking slower but also better for everyone. however they use skill based matchmaking over connection based so it's not something they want. like i said before they want you to play their way.

i see it going 1 of 2 ways. either they cave in and bring it back (as DLC or in Destiny 3) or they lose a lot of their fanbase. the vast majority of people play games to have fun. they don't want to be confined to playing a game where the developers control how you play.
 
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they let all the streamers (top players) come and play the beta version and they used snipers and were wiping the other team out. the developers said if you keep this up we will need to nerf snipers even more and they have already pretty much nerfed them into the ground already. this shows you the thinking of bungie.

Source? Did they actually say that?

The snipers have essentially gone back to the Halo 3 era now, it was never an issue back then. Same way its not an issue in CS:GO. A 1HK weapon will always look overpowered when a top player is playing against randoms.

bungie want you to play their way with their rules and whatever weapons they want to be powerful at that moment in time. they for some reason don't like snipers it must not have been within their vision for it to become a sniping game so they are doing what they can to effectively get rid of them as much as possible.

IMO Bungie's approach to PvP balancing in D1 was very poor. They always seemed to be playing catch up, over nerfing weapons and weapon classes, misleading communications and patch notes (e.g. SBMM) It even got to the point where they gave up on balancing and just targeted the ammo types available.

I don't think they "wanted" certain weapons to be powerful, it just happened because they never got the PvP balance under control. Top players also inadvertently took the game speed to areas Bungie simply didn't plan for. For example the speed Titans could achieve, coupled with a shotgun, made balancing weapon ranges very problematic.

There is a great Reddit post about gunplay/speed here for anyone who cares:
https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyThe...detailed_look_at_gunplay_in_destiny_over_the/

i see it going 1 of 2 ways. either they cave in and bring it back (as DLC or in Destiny 3) or they lose a lot of their fanbase. the vast majority of people play games to have fun. they don't want to be confined to playing a game where the developers control how you play.

I'll keep saying it. Ranked and Un-Ranked, same as Overwatch, Halo, CS:GO etc etc. Aside from the connection element, 4v4 should be a good move for comp. They would be foolish to keep all playlists at 4v4 though.
 
Caporegime
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Source? Did they actually say that?

The snipers have essentially gone back to the Halo 3 era now, it was never an issue back then. Same way its not an issue in CS:GO. A 1HK weapon will always look overpowered when a top player is playing against randoms.



IMO Bungie's approach to PvP balancing in D1 was very poor. They always seemed to be playing catch up, over nerfing weapons and weapon classes, misleading communications and patch notes (e.g. SBMM) It even got to the point where they gave up on balancing and just targeted the ammo types available.

I don't think they "wanted" certain weapons to be powerful, it just happened because they never got the PvP balance under control. Top players also inadvertently took the game speed to areas Bungie simply didn't plan for. For example the speed Titans could achieve, coupled with a shotgun, made balancing weapon ranges very problematic.

There is a great Reddit post about gunplay/speed here for anyone who cares:
https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyThe...detailed_look_at_gunplay_in_destiny_over_the/



I'll keep saying it. Ranked and Un-Ranked, same as Overwatch, Halo, CS:GO etc etc. Aside from the connection element, 4v4 should be a good move for comp. They would be foolish to keep all playlists at 4v4 though.

it was in a youtube video i watched by a popular destiny streamer. i can't remember which one now. i think possibly hush but i cannot say for sure. i'm subscribed to a few.

basically it was showing D2 crucible footage. and he said that whilst he was making this clip a bungo developer said to him. if you keep this up we are going to have to nerf snipers even more. he then made the famous hush "what" iirc which is why i'm thinking it must be in one of hush's videos.

also bungie have said they want metas. they want you to be using specific weapons. they don't want balance. again i read this on reddit too and it was quoting a announcement direct from bungie.

so yes they want different weapons to have different era's of reign. you will have a handful of weapons which are OP. they will then after 12 months or so (going by D1 patches) then make a completely different set of weapons OP and the cycle continues. it was all on reddit.

which is in keeping with the game. think about it limit vault space. make people choose on what weapons to keep. then after they have their meta weapons perfected. ditch them and make a new meta. players then have to play continuously for hours to get the new meta weapons in decent rolls. it keeps people playing which is what they want. they can use those stats to show investors, shareholders, etc. look the average destiny player plays this game for X hours per week. because they are constantly grinding for weapons. make a perfectly balanced meta people will stop grinding therefore they play the game for less hours per week. that is the last thing they want.
 
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Associate
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basically it was showing D2 crucible footage. and he said that whilst he was making this clip a bungo developer said to him. if you keep this up we are going to have to nerf snipers even more. he then made the famous hush "what" iirc which is why i'm thinking it must be in one of hush's videos.

also bungie have said they want metas. they want you to be using specific weapons. they don't want balance. again i read this on reddit too and it was quoting a announcement direct from bungie.

which is in keeping with the game. think about it limit vault space. make people choose on what weapons to keep. then after they have their meta weapons perfected. ditch them and make a new meta. players then have to play continuously for hours to get the new meta weapons in decent rolls.

I'm pretty sure that I watched the same Hush video, and it sounded more like comment made in jest rather than "we hate snipers and will nerf them more". Secondly, I very much doubt that Bungie directly announced they wanted weapon metas. To suggest that there is some kind of weapon meta conspiracy is pretty far-fetched.

You honestly believe they limited storage space to make people grind for more gear? For your logic to work, there would have to be a considerably high % of the player base who care about or chase "meta weapon rolls" for PvP, that is simply not the case. Most of the player base couldn't care less about a "god roll" Eyasluna, they're just playing PvE and maybe some IB. Why would they bother selling weapons at the tower with good rolls (Palindrome)? Why would they even increase vault space? Why remove grindy elements like shards/energy/etheric light etc? Why add Three of Coins? The list goes on....

Anyway, it doesn't really matter, the eSports community will laugh at Destiny 2 if they have RNG weapon rolls playing a major part in competitive modes.
 
Caporegime
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it was in a youtube video i watched by a popular destiny streamer. i can't remember which one now. i think possibly hush but i cannot say for sure. i'm subscribed to a few.

basically it was showing D2 crucible footage. and he said that whilst he was making this clip a bungo developer said to him. if you keep this up we are going to have to nerf snipers even more. he then made the famous hush "what" iirc which is why i'm thinking it must be in one of hush's videos.

also bungie have said they want metas. they want you to be using specific weapons. they don't want balance. again i read this on reddit too and it was quoting a announcement direct from bungie.

so yes they want different weapons to have different era's of reign. you will have a handful of weapons which are OP. they will then after 12 months or so (going by D1 patches) then make a completely different set of weapons OP and the cycle continues. it was all on reddit.

which is in keeping with the game. think about it limit vault space. make people choose on what weapons to keep. then after they have their meta weapons perfected. ditch them and make a new meta. players then have to play continuously for hours to get the new meta weapons in decent rolls. it keeps people playing which is what they want. they can use those stats to show investors, shareholders, etc. look the average destiny player plays this game for X hours per week. because they are constantly grinding for weapons. make a perfectly balanced meta people will stop grinding therefore they play the game for less hours per week. that is the last thing they want.

The comment to hush about snipers was light hearted banter. They've already solved the special problem once and for all by putting shotguns snipers and fusion rifles in the heavy slots. Now they really are only going to be used on occasion as a power weapon which is what the original goal was, and why they removed special ammo on death - to try and make it so you have to go chase ammo boxes like you do now in D2 with the heavy pickups on the wall.

as for the meta stuff, that's just conspiracy theories on reddit. Don't go posting it as fact because it's nothing of the sort.
 
Caporegime
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they have always wanted destiny to be a competitive game and with 6's people can go missing. 3's is their trials mode so 4's is going to be basically a mix of both but edging on the more competitive side.

not having that either. If this was just about making destiny competitive you could swap trials for this new 4v4 mode and leave all the 6v6 stuff untouched. But they've said all crucible game modes have gone 4v4.

And foremost, if they wanted competitive play they should have started with a competitive ranked game mode ala DOTA , League of Legends, Overwatch, CS:GO etc..

This is just to try and solve their lag issues without forking out for more dedicated servers.
 
Soldato
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I haven't played since the vanilla.

Enjoyed it. Graphics bump. Weapons feel meaty and the competitive mode......

Haven't tried the strike yet.
 
Associate
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Feels like a Destiny 1.5. Graphics look good enough, nice use of textures and lighting. The story and strike where also fun to play through but didn't really feel like anything we haven't already seen with D1, which depending on how you feel isn't necessarily a bad thing. It'll be interesting to see how the final game turns out compared to the beta.
 
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