Soldato
US doctors seem to thnk that he WASNT tortured, but nice taking the propaganda bait without fact checking.
Otto Warmbier, 15 years hard labour?
- Thread starter jsmoke
- Start date
nothing to do with propaganda - you're referring to signs of physical abuse... no one is claiming there is evidence he was beaten
No you have no idea. You've decided it's torture with no evidence.
Why torture him after his trial?
"this isn't just a random death and no we don't torture people in our prisons.."
Except it is a random death, not like he was anyone of importance.
You must have forgot that whole scandal with us and our allies torturing people.
And how waterboarding is an aproved "interrogation" technique.
What was that prison the USA deliberately keeps out if it's borders so it can torture people again?
Gauntanimo?
"the US might in Guantanamo re: waterboarding - though not exactly to the extent where they end up in a coma!"
Extrodinary rendition, the British troops in iraqi prisons etc etc
"totally irrelevant"
Well totally relevant isn't it.
Prisons even in the USA are not safe places.
How safe do you think an NK prison is for somone who doesn't speak Korean?
hardly no evidence - an otherwise healthy 22 yr old goes to prison in a country well known for torture and generally mistreating prisoners... comes out in a coma and dies... hardly rocket science re: the likely explanation
that is a question for the North Koreans... they're not exactly averse to it though
Man of Honour
Like when otherwise healthy young men suddenly drop dead on football pitches? It does happen.
Caporegime
RIP Otto 
At least you died on home soil and not in that terrible place.
At least you died on home soil and not in that terrible place.
Permabanned
I suspect a lot of people saying it's madness to go to North Korea as a visitor and steal something are also people who will say in reference to their homeland that Draconian deterrents don't work. I would say this sad tale is salutary and anyone reading it won't consider nicking anything should they themselves visit NK. QED Draconian deterrents DO work....
Wednesday's London "Day of rage" or whatever the unwashed are calling it. Fancy a spliff? No worries. Visiting the Philippines? Doin' some drugs.....?
Wednesday's London "Day of rage" or whatever the unwashed are calling it. Fancy a spliff? No worries. Visiting the Philippines? Doin' some drugs.....?
North Korean Labour camps are not like our prisons, they are more like closed cities, He would still have access to the means to suffocate, hang, or gas himself with vehicle fumes (I doubt NK is much into emission controls) all of which are likely to be consistent with his severe brain injuries.
He might also of course have been water boarded for fun by his guards (IIRC it was the North Koreans who invented the wet towel trick) and they over did it. But I would be a little surprised at this. Usually, Westerners, and particularly Americans imprisoned in NK are valued as Pawns in the game and are typically discreetly traded for some favour once everybody has forgotten about them.
It is sad that his prank ended so awfully for everybody involved, But at the same time, he was never going to recover and the eventual outcome was probably for the best.
It is also worth noting that most Asiatic countries, not just NK, will take a very dim view indeed to foreigners who disrespect the authority of the state or do anything to disrupt their sense of social order. The reward for any such misbehaviour in any of them (Not just NK) is likely to result in savage legal reprisals compared to what we are used to in the west.
NK is certainly at the extreme end of the scale, but it should not be considered out of context. The legacy of the Qin Emperors concept of "Legalism" as a means to control the people runs strongly through all of them to this day.. :/
Yes... but it is rather rare. I mean don't let the fact he was in a prison in a country with massive human rights abuses and a track record for torture get in the way here. Not to mention that those people tend to drop dead rather abruptly and the given explanation by North Korea was a particular medical condition that doctors didn't find any evidence of. Really stuff like that is pretty unlikely in comparison to the rather obvious and likely explanation.
Caporegime
Of course it does but in this case it wasn't sudden death from cardiomyopathy or another un-diagnosed heart condition he was in a coma for over a year so it's not at all the same, respiratory arrest is being put forward as the likely cause and I'm not sure quite how common that is in healthy young adults, his parents also said: “When Otto returned to Cincinnati late on 13 June he was unable to speak, unable to see and unable to react to verbal commands,” his parents said in their statement. “He looked very uncomfortable – almost anguished. Although we would never hear his voice again, within a day the countenance of his face changed – he was at peace. He was home and we believe he could sense that.”
Caporegime
Just a thought but he was sentenced to hard labour, which will be what? 14+ hours a day of physical activity, seven days a week - maybe his body just couldn't cope with that and he suffered the cardiac arrest that led to his coma.
Let us also not forget the MSM companies that laughed and said Otto deserved it when he was first captured by North Korea:
https://www.mrctv.org/videos/flashback-comedy-central-huffpo-mocked-capture-otto-warmbier
http://dailycaller.com/2016/03/25/huffpo-n-korea-prisoner-deserves-it-because-hes-white/
Let us also not forget the MSM companies that laughed and said Otto deserved it when he was first captured by North Korea:
https://www.mrctv.org/videos/flashback-comedy-central-huffpo-mocked-capture-otto-warmbier
http://dailycaller.com/2016/03/25/huffpo-n-korea-prisoner-deserves-it-because-hes-white/
Man of Honour
RIP Otto
Be realistic, he was braindead and machines were keeping him going. He died in North Korea. He was just a vegetable.
No, vegetable or not, he died in the USA. That is important for him and his family.
Soldato
As harsh as it sounds, from a political point of view, is it likely they returned him in the medical condition he was in because they knew he didn't have long to live? Having to explain the death of a US citizen in the current political climate was a worse option than releasing him back to the US once they realised he wasn't going to recover?
Associate
TBH in a Country where you get 'Death by Flamethrower' you DO NOT go around stealing their ****!
For the vast, vast majority of people, the take-away will be "I'm never going to North Korea." Not "I'm never going to steal something in North Korea."
We don't want the same kind of punishments here for obvious reasons. We don't want to become North Korea.
Well, most of us think that way.....not all
Soldato
- Joined
- 1 Dec 2003
- Posts
- 3,490
feel sorry for this guy and the family, god knows what they did to him
RIP
RIP