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Sonny Bill Williams is going to get a roasting back home.... poor him lol
Great win by the Lions, glad they won
Great win by the Lions, glad they won
**2017 Lions tour to New Zealand**
- Thread starter dl8860
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Caporegime
What a win by the Lions early this morning, didn't watch the game but chuffed with the result.
Series tied at 1-1 and first loss at home for NZ for a very long time.
Series tied at 1-1 and first loss at home for NZ for a very long time.
Caporegime
Scraped home with a one man advantage for most of the game...unconvincing.
Man of Honour
Well done to the Lions for the win, not many sides have beaten NZ at home ever so it's a good result even if it was them just scraping past. It'll be interesting for the final test at Eden Park and the NZ with a sense of injustice (whether merited or not).
Soldato
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I've rewatched the SBW red card a couple of times and in real speed it looks really touch and go as to whether it's red card. But I understand that is the direction given to the refs. I also rewatched the Vuinopola clear out of Barrett and we really dodged a bullet because that is much more clearly deliberate and he leads with a forearm and gets a glancing blow to Barrett's head. Given how many points we shipped whilst he was off that could have been the game.
I'm wondering what changes we might see next week. Plainly no SBW maybe no SOB.
edit: SBW got 4 weeks the citing panel decided it was reckless not intentional, but definitely a red card.
SOB cleared, which was no surprise.
I'm wondering what changes we might see next week. Plainly no SBW maybe no SOB.
edit: SBW got 4 weeks the citing panel decided it was reckless not intentional, but definitely a red card.
SOB cleared, which was no surprise.
Last edited:
Soldato
The SBW tackle was laziness as much as anything. It sends the right message to the game as a whole - observe good tackling technique or potentially get sent off. I can understand Vunipola's frustration. The AB's were able to generate such clean ball throughout both tests mostly by supporting players tackling defenders close to the ruck. That doesn't excuse taking a cheap shot at Barrett in the ruck though (I thought the collision at the charge down was fair).
As for the pen at the death - tackling the player in the air is a penalty, jumping into a tackle is a penalty. I'd be feeling pretty hard done by in Faumuina's position.
Looking ahead you start to wonder how much the AB's pack have got left in the tank. Retallick and Whitelock were much less effective this week. Whereas the Lions can rotate in fresh legs without losing much. Plus a very raw centre partnership of Laumape and Lienert-Brown.
The Lions will need a disciplined, error free 80 minutes though.
As for the pen at the death - tackling the player in the air is a penalty, jumping into a tackle is a penalty. I'd be feeling pretty hard done by in Faumuina's position.
Looking ahead you start to wonder how much the AB's pack have got left in the tank. Retallick and Whitelock were much less effective this week. Whereas the Lions can rotate in fresh legs without losing much. Plus a very raw centre partnership of Laumape and Lienert-Brown.
The Lions will need a disciplined, error free 80 minutes though.
Some sympathy for the ABs on the last pen - he'd jumped to collect the ball not avoid the tackle so think technically correct.
Vunipola will lose his starting spot I think. He got dinged for it but to be fair the refs need to crack down on players from both side charging into rucks off their feet.
I'd say Sexton and Murray would be bemused at the Kiwi outrage of Barrett getting a glancing late hit after kicking the ball...
Next week should be good. I thought Lions were looking pretty good 15v15. Discipline went out the window with the red and I think weather helped the ABs at that point. There pack just had to tighten it up and they kept a full backline. Continuous silly penalties just meant they could boss the territory.
SOB not getting banned (rightfully so too) is a big plus. He'd got a big defensive task watching the 10-12 axis the ABs wanted to blast down.
Cut the penalties and stop the AB offloading game and it's there for the taking.
Vunipola will lose his starting spot I think. He got dinged for it but to be fair the refs need to crack down on players from both side charging into rucks off their feet.
I'd say Sexton and Murray would be bemused at the Kiwi outrage of Barrett getting a glancing late hit after kicking the ball...
Next week should be good. I thought Lions were looking pretty good 15v15. Discipline went out the window with the red and I think weather helped the ABs at that point. There pack just had to tighten it up and they kept a full backline. Continuous silly penalties just meant they could boss the territory.
SOB not getting banned (rightfully so too) is a big plus. He'd got a big defensive task watching the 10-12 axis the ABs wanted to blast down.
Cut the penalties and stop the AB offloading game and it's there for the taking.
Soldato
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That was an area of worry for me, I saw SOB defending the 12 channel and I wonder if we hadn't had the free ride of the SBW red card would that have hurt us elsewhere, effectively always losing your 7 to defending a capable but relatively lightweight 10 12 pairing. You noticed the moment SOB wasn't there during Mako's yellow that the AB's made big ground through that channel.
Soldato
Unchanged Lions 23 for the third test. NZ have a bit of shuffle in the backline with Williams banned, Naholo presumably rested due to concussion and Ioane dropped from the 23.
OK, so we won last week. Or rather NZ lost. It was hardly convincing. I'd have definitely rotated some fresh legs into the pack and returned Te'o to 12.
Lions: Liam Williams (Wales); Anthony Watson (England), Jonathan Davies (Wales), Owen Farrell (England), Elliot Daly (England); Johnny Sexton (Ireland), Conor Murray (Ireland); Mako Vunipola (England), Jamie George (England) Tadhg Furlong (Ireland), Maro Itoje (England), Alun Wyn Jones (Wales) Sam Warburton (capt, Wales), Sean O'Brien (Ireland), Taulupe Faletau (Wales)
Replacements: Ken Owens (Wales), Jack McGrath (Ireland), Kyle Sinckler (England), Courtney Lawes (England), CJ Stander (Ireland), Rhys Webb (Wales), Ben Te'o (England), Jack Nowell (England)
New Zealand: Jordie Barrett; Israel Dagg, Anton Lienert-Brown, Ngani Laumape, Julian Savea; Beauden Barrett, Aaron Smith; Joe Moody, Codie Taylor, Owen Franks, Brodie Retallick, Sam Whitelock, Jerome Kaino, Sam Cane, Kieran Read.
Replacements: Nathan Harris, Wyatt Crockett, Charlie Faumuina, Scott Barrett, Ardie Savea, TJ Perenara, Aaron Cruden, Malakai Fekitoa.
Replacements: Ken Owens (Wales), Jack McGrath (Ireland), Kyle Sinckler (England), Courtney Lawes (England), CJ Stander (Ireland), Rhys Webb (Wales), Ben Te'o (England), Jack Nowell (England)
New Zealand: Jordie Barrett; Israel Dagg, Anton Lienert-Brown, Ngani Laumape, Julian Savea; Beauden Barrett, Aaron Smith; Joe Moody, Codie Taylor, Owen Franks, Brodie Retallick, Sam Whitelock, Jerome Kaino, Sam Cane, Kieran Read.
Replacements: Nathan Harris, Wyatt Crockett, Charlie Faumuina, Scott Barrett, Ardie Savea, TJ Perenara, Aaron Cruden, Malakai Fekitoa.
OK, so we won last week. Or rather NZ lost. It was hardly convincing. I'd have definitely rotated some fresh legs into the pack and returned Te'o to 12.
Man of Honour
There was an interesting article on BBC sport regarding why did a number of Scots they feel little allegiance or even interest towards the Lions now, a party to which we're not invited was one description.
And I can understand that attitude, while I'd readily acknowledge that Scotland's rugby team hasn't been great for much of the past decade they've made some big strides over the past few years. It's difficult to say absolutely that Scottish players definitely deserve a test place over others but it is meant to be a team from all constituent nations and there's now enough Scottish players who wouldn't disgrace the jersey.
And I can understand that attitude, while I'd readily acknowledge that Scotland's rugby team hasn't been great for much of the past decade they've made some big strides over the past few years. It's difficult to say absolutely that Scottish players definitely deserve a test place over others but it is meant to be a team from all constituent nations and there's now enough Scottish players who wouldn't disgrace the jersey.
Soldato
But for a freak injury Hogg would be starting at 15 and WP Nel would likely be in the 23. It's hard to justify the inclusion of any other Scots on merit. The Grays are a bit unfortunate as 2nd row was the hardest contested position on the tour.
Would you advocate the inclusion of a token player?
Would you advocate the inclusion of a token player?
Man of Honour
That's part of the problem which I have a nod to, it's difficult to point to specific Scottish players who have an unquestionable claim to a starting spot over others and indeed you could make the argument that there are some English players (Launchbury for one) who can also feel hard done by not to be there.
However it's also meant to be a British and Irish Lions team which implies that all nations should be represented. I'm not sure a token player is the way to go but someone like Tommy Seymour has played reasonably in the midweek teams so to at least put him on the bench for the tests would alleviate some of the issue. Then you've got the question of why Gatland went with the ill advised call ups of the extra Scottish and Welsh players then basically ignored them.
I suppose for me there's just a bit of frustration that despite the progress Scotland have made in recent years the players still seem about as far as ever from Lions recognition. That might be partly due to my feelings towards the coach though.
However it's also meant to be a British and Irish Lions team which implies that all nations should be represented. I'm not sure a token player is the way to go but someone like Tommy Seymour has played reasonably in the midweek teams so to at least put him on the bench for the tests would alleviate some of the issue. Then you've got the question of why Gatland went with the ill advised call ups of the extra Scottish and Welsh players then basically ignored them.
I suppose for me there's just a bit of frustration that despite the progress Scotland have made in recent years the players still seem about as far as ever from Lions recognition. That might be partly due to my feelings towards the coach though.
Soldato
Does anyone know where i'd be able to watch the final test in Manchester?
Coming up for the weekend and didn't realise it clashed with the final match, and didn't think the final match would be so important!
Coming up for the weekend and didn't realise it clashed with the final match, and didn't think the final match would be so important!
Caporegime
If the 15 best players were all English then they should be the 15 to start the tests. Same if it were any other country. This isn't a school sports day, it's a serious business and this concept of proportionate representation of the nations should be ignored.
Well I'm not so sure Participant. I don't like the idea of token players to appease one nation in particular, or even think that coaches should worry tooo much about the blend within the team.
But a team of 15 Englishmen or 15 Welshmen (etc.) just would not be the Lions. Yes the Lions play to win, and the matches are professionally competitive, but at the same time, the Lions is undeniably about the power of the 4 home nations together.
But a team of 15 Englishmen or 15 Welshmen (etc.) just would not be the Lions. Yes the Lions play to win, and the matches are professionally competitive, but at the same time, the Lions is undeniably about the power of the 4 home nations together.
Soldato
I foresee a Blacklash tomorrow 
I actually fancy the Lions, the ABs aren't at full strength, and they've not been under pressure like this for years and years. Now that it's just a one off win needed, I really do think we can do it.
Soldato
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We have field position, we have possession and we have a penalty and we go for an up an under. Talk about lack of ambition.