bit of an odd way to phrase it since no one is forcing you to either go to university or take a loan out and you're only paying back what you owe + some interest
Should we abolish student fees?
- Thread starter Silly Goose On The Loose
- Start date
bit of an odd way to phrase it since no one is forcing you to either go to university or take a loan out and you're only paying back what you owe + some interest
Except with interest rates hitting the likes of 6.1%, the majority of people won't pay it off before 30 years is up. Therefore it is just a tax rather than a loan. You will pay something proportional to your income.
You are right in that not everyone goes on to do higher education though.
You can literally make more money at Aldi... why should they bother? Oh and they don't need to go to Uni for Aldi either.
Associate
- Joined
- 7 Sep 2014
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- 1,160
I think they should be scrapped for the top 20% of students (based on Alevel or equivalent qualifications). Personally I don't think we should limit the scope just to STEM but STEM should have a larger share of those 20% places.
Why?
* Our success as a country is dependant on our research and development capabilities, so investing in the next generation of leaders is critical.
* whilst STEM graduates are critical we have to remember as a country we need to support a range skilled professions that need university educated staff. (No good having all STEMS where we can't manage our economy using economists for example).
* we should have quota system where, say there is 400,000 funded university placements, with STEM and medicine getting the priority but all subjects having some representation.
* we have far too many people going to university which is an academic pursuit and far too few doing vocational altentives. University should be for those that have the ability to succeed, rather than for those that just want to go.
Why?
* Our success as a country is dependant on our research and development capabilities, so investing in the next generation of leaders is critical.
* whilst STEM graduates are critical we have to remember as a country we need to support a range skilled professions that need university educated staff. (No good having all STEMS where we can't manage our economy using economists for example).
* we should have quota system where, say there is 400,000 funded university placements, with STEM and medicine getting the priority but all subjects having some representation.
* we have far too many people going to university which is an academic pursuit and far too few doing vocational altentives. University should be for those that have the ability to succeed, rather than for those that just want to go.
that is pretty dubious... it is career earnings not starting salary that is relevant here
Even with a degree you will do well to get a £40k a year plus job, and there a plenty of people ( me included) who have one of those without one.
Soldato
- Joined
- 27 Mar 2013
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- 9,147
I had a chat with her and its actually normally about 90 a month, the 188 was when she got a bonus for being back at work for 12 months after mat leave, i also forgot to factor in interest as she has no idea what shes paying. But as a rough figure, if she pays 90 a month, to pay off 16 grand will take ~14 years. If you have a debt of 3 times that, how is it feasible that it will get paid off? In my mind it just doesnt make sense. For reference shes on about £33,000 but i dont know if the loan gets paid back based on pre tax pay of not.
Soldato
"Should we abolish student fees?" No.
But we should make them pay it all back no matter what.
But we should make them pay it all back no matter what.
I'm not really sure what your point is? The other poster was comparing doctors with Aldi workers, this really is bizarre? That 40k starting salary isn't the key thing to compare here.
The proposal was that they could have tuition free in return for x years NHS service. The other poster thought this was somehow outrageous and comparable to slavery and now has randomly claimed some irrelevant fact about being able to earn more at Aldi (which would likely apply more to starting salary than average career earnings of supermarket managers vs doctors).
Soldato
Medicine
Nursing
Engineering
Sciences
PGCE
should all be free as this country is going to need a lot of these kinds of highly skilled and educated people moving forward once the UK goes into isolation max mode. All other mickey mouse type degrees that involve students only having 8 hours of lectures a week they should pay for themselves.
Nursing
Engineering
Sciences
PGCE
should all be free as this country is going to need a lot of these kinds of highly skilled and educated people moving forward once the UK goes into isolation max mode. All other mickey mouse type degrees that involve students only having 8 hours of lectures a week they should pay for themselves.
Speaking as an academic, you are woefully incorrect. In terms of course content and difficulty of examination, there is an absolutely huge spectrum out there.
Caporegime
That's because having a degree doesn't guarantee you're going to be good at a specific job, half the battle of moving up the ladder is being good with people and licking **** for a bit till you don't need to anymore.
Associate
I'd say abolish student fees... But I'm actually all for a graduate tax.
The rich will pay if off silly early because of parents just throwing money at it. The poor get lots of grants so have to pay off less at the end of it.
The middle class get the worst of both worlds, ending with the full amount to pay with little prospect of paying it off.
Personally, if you go to university and get a good job out of it, I'd say you've done well enough out of it to contribute the costs+ to society.
The rich will pay if off silly early because of parents just throwing money at it. The poor get lots of grants so have to pay off less at the end of it.
The middle class get the worst of both worlds, ending with the full amount to pay with little prospect of paying it off.
Personally, if you go to university and get a good job out of it, I'd say you've done well enough out of it to contribute the costs+ to society.
What if you don't get a good job out of university but say retrain and do something not requiring a degree - say you become a successful plumber or something - why do you then have to pay for your university costs many times over? I don't really see how a 'graduate tax' is particularly fair.
I'm not really sure what a graduate tax is trying to solve compared to the current system of loans that don't necessarily need to be paid back.
Really? Not sure that is correct. I haven't gone to university, so a bit light on evidence, then again unless someone has studied the same degree at two different universities who would know?
My friends predominantly went Anglia Ruskin and come out with mixture of 2:1s and 2:2s by basically partying for 3 years. Sister went Leicester and came out with 2:1 and she is much brighter than my mates, also worked harder. Not that this is much evidence. Partner got a 1st in law from Hertfordshire but she worked her socks off. Family friend got a 1st in law from Durham. Family friend didn't struggle to walk into a law firm. Partner struggled to get in then lost interest now is doing well in HR focused role. Again not really evidence of course difficulty but why does university matter to employers so much if degrees from any university are the same?
You said you got a degree from Lancaster and it's not holding you back, well why would it? It's in the top 10 in the uk?
To do with the money side of things, i'm not really sure how to fix it... I will say some of the fees seem pretty massive and it would be nice to see a breakdown as to where the money goes to see if the fees are indeed value for money or is someone making a huge profit from them for the sake of making a huge profit from them.
However i think the attitude towards Uni and other options should be looked at. For example, I'm not sure if its the same now as it used to be but back when i was leaving school Uni was kind of shown as the way to go and trades, college and apprentice kind of stuff was almost looked down on? Roll ahead to now and some of the most successful people i know are tradesmen with their own businesses etc. Now i was going to go to Uni but for whatever reason didnt end up going. I then made my part time 6th form job full time and basically earned a terrible wage doing a boring job. However i then made the move to IT after about 4 years of doing that starting as a IT Helpdesk bod. The money wasnt that much better, but the job progression was. So over the last 11 years i went from helpdesk, to Infrastructure Engineer and now to Datacentre Supervisor and am now earning decent money. (Well, i think its decent for where i live?!)
I guess what i am saying in a long winded way is that Uni shouldnt be presented as the be all and end all as it used to be (At least in my experience) Depending on your chosen career path other options may work better.
However i think the attitude towards Uni and other options should be looked at. For example, I'm not sure if its the same now as it used to be but back when i was leaving school Uni was kind of shown as the way to go and trades, college and apprentice kind of stuff was almost looked down on? Roll ahead to now and some of the most successful people i know are tradesmen with their own businesses etc. Now i was going to go to Uni but for whatever reason didnt end up going. I then made my part time 6th form job full time and basically earned a terrible wage doing a boring job. However i then made the move to IT after about 4 years of doing that starting as a IT Helpdesk bod. The money wasnt that much better, but the job progression was. So over the last 11 years i went from helpdesk, to Infrastructure Engineer and now to Datacentre Supervisor and am now earning decent money. (Well, i think its decent for where i live?!)
I guess what i am saying in a long winded way is that Uni shouldnt be presented as the be all and end all as it used to be (At least in my experience) Depending on your chosen career path other options may work better.
So how is this going to work now the debt has been/is being sold off to private firms?
Part of the agreement is they can't change the terms of the loan (let's see how long that lasts) as I can't really see private companies just accepting a default* rate as high as this is predicted to be.....there's not a clause where we (the tax payer) underwrites it anyway is there?
(* default as in not paying the full amount back after the 30 years)
Part of the agreement is they can't change the terms of the loan (let's see how long that lasts) as I can't really see private companies just accepting a default* rate as high as this is predicted to be.....there's not a clause where we (the tax payer) underwrites it anyway is there?
(* default as in not paying the full amount back after the 30 years)
I'd be all for a free university system for UK born students, or long term migrants (15+ years). At the end of the day having educated people can only help society in a better way.
I would however weed out some of the ridiculous degrees, like this one for example: http://www.birmingham.ac.uk/undergraduate/courses/sportex/app-golf-mgt-studies.aspx
Lets face it, you don't need to be educated to a degree level to qualify for playing golf, and if it's more aimed at golf management/running a golf business - then surely some form of a business studies/management degree would suffice.
I would however weed out some of the ridiculous degrees, like this one for example: http://www.birmingham.ac.uk/undergraduate/courses/sportex/app-golf-mgt-studies.aspx
Lets face it, you don't need to be educated to a degree level to qualify for playing golf, and if it's more aimed at golf management/running a golf business - then surely some form of a business studies/management degree would suffice.
So, for every person that decides to go to HE, does every person who doesn't do they get a cheque in the post for the same value?
reading the course description it seems more than that. Sports science, sports research, business management, coaching, marketing etc. It covers a lot of bases. A lot of these "mickey mouse" degrees generally have normal degree core modules, with a handful of more focused and "silly" modules added on.
combine that with a lack of respect and confidence in apprenticeships, HNDs and other more vocational learning and that every company wants a degree if you need it or not. This really needs to be worked on as well as offerign free higher education.