BBC documentary - The Vietnam War

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I was very sad to finish the last episode. This was an epic documentary. I also thought the closing song was very apt.
 
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Not read Citizen Soldiers, but great Vietnam books -

The Things They Carried - Tim O'Brien ( probably my favorite )
A Rumour of War - Phillip Caputo
Dispatches - Michael Herr
Chickenhawk - Robert Mason
A Bright Shining Lie - Neil Sheehan

Matterhorn is supposed to be excellent, but not read it.

A number of those authors also appear in interviews in the series, haven't watched past ep4 yet, need to catch up.

Thanks for those. The only one I have read is Matterhorn by Karl Marlantes (he was one of the Marines interviewed in the documentary) and it is excellent.

Fields of Fire by James Webb comes highly recommended as well
 
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Thanks for those. The only one I have read is Matterhorn by Karl Marlantes (he was one of the Marines interviewed in the documentary) and it is excellent.

Fields of Fire by James Webb comes highly recommended as well

Cheers, i'll have a look at those via Kindle.

Hue 1968 by Mark Bowden is also extremely well received , another to add to my list , apparently its also being developed into a 8+hour mini series via Michael Mann. Still haven't caught up on the series yet,so not got to the Tet offensive.
 
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Yeh it's those bits that get me, intermingled with tapes of Nixon making it obvious that he considers the war just another part of his political game. What a crook! He puts the worst characters in Game of Thrones to shame.

It must have been frustrating to live in the US when half the people thought being anti-war equated to being 'commie loving' and unpatriotic. I try to picture being at a student rally against the war and the police start shooting people dead... in the US!! Unbelievable that actually happened.

And now they've elected Trump!
 
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b096k7q7

I started watching this the other night, half expecting a fairly routine documentary but was immediately impressed. Apparently the programme took 10 years to make, and you can tell. The quality of the footage, interviews and production is some of the best I've seen, and at times it's very chilling.

I didn't know much about the Vietnam war other than what it showed in classic films, but this series goes into depth about the brutal 10 years leading up to the large scale involvement of US troops. For example, I didn't even know Vietnam was at war with France!


My great-uncle was wounded at Dien Bien Phu in 1954, he was with the French Airborne, and was flown out not long before the surrender.
I’ve watched all 10 episodes on BBC4, and was perturbed, and quietly amazed at the deceit and total BS that LBJ, Nixon and Kissinger fed the US Public.
The episode that showed vets lining up to throw their medals at the White House was an eye opener.
I’m guessing that sometime in the future PBS America on U.K. TV may show the 18 hour original series, but it will be just like watching what I’ve already seen, with extra bits added.
I’d liked to have seen the original full length documentary, but I took what was offered on BBC.
Anyone who saw Ken Burns “Civil War” documentary would grab “Vietnam” with both hands.
 

FTM

FTM

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what amazes me is that johnson and nixon in private both acknowledge what a terrible idea it was/is to be involved, how they didnt like propping up corrupt southern vietnamese governments ,yet they had not get out plan

instead of cutting their losses they doubled down each time and sent more of their own troops to their death and bombed the crap out of more civilians

they just didnt have the guts to lose face and pull out...which if they had done would have saved them a national humilation anyway!!
 
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what amazes me is that johnson and nixon in private both acknowledge what a terrible idea it was/is to be involved, how they didnt like propping up corrupt southern vietnamese governments ,yet they had not get out plan

instead of cutting their losses they doubled down each time and sent more of their own troops to their death and bombed the crap out of more civilians

they just didnt have the guts to lose face and pull out...which if they had done would have saved them a national humilation anyway!!
Yeah I found the whole thing enraging. They want to get relected so badly they will lie to the voters and wage a war that makes millions homeless and kills god knows how many civilians and soldiers on both sides. Like them being in charge of America was so important. They all deserve to have been shot tbh.

America's whole involvement with Vietnam is almost uncomprehensible. Their defeat/ pulling out of Vietnam should be celebrated the way the defeat of the Nazis in WW2 is.
 
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But they're "The Good Guys" so that would never happen. The second you put normal troops on the ground to fight (not just SF advisers) it becomes almost impossible to leave without either a total defeat for your enemy of a total defeat for yourself. I particularly find it amazing that, with the blue-print for "How a Small Guerilla Force can Beat the US Military" well known to everyone since Vietnam, the US leadership (both civil and military) still thought "I know better" when it came to Afghan, Iraq (twice), Libya, Syria etc and our leaders are no better at times.
 
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what amazes me is that johnson and nixon in private both acknowledge what a terrible idea it was/is to be involved, how they didnt like propping up corrupt southern vietnamese governments ,yet they had not get out plan

instead of cutting their losses they doubled down each time and sent more of their own troops to their death and bombed the crap out of more civilians

they just didnt have the guts to lose face and pull out...which if they had done would have saved them a national humilation anyway!!

Well lets not forget this douche.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Kissinger
 
Soldato
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But they're "The Good Guys" so that would never happen. The second you put normal troops on the ground to fight (not just SF advisers) it becomes almost impossible to leave without either a total defeat for your enemy of a total defeat for yourself. I particularly find it amazing that, with the blue-print for "How a Small Guerilla Force can Beat the US Military" well known to everyone since Vietnam, the US leadership (both civil and military) still thought "I know better" when it came to Afghan, Iraq (twice), Libya, Syria etc and our leaders are no better at times.

Don't compare Vietnam to Iraq (or any recent intervention infact) Totally different wars.

Have a read why - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/aug/26/comment.usa1
 
Soldato
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Don't compare Vietnam to Iraq (or any recent intervention infact) Totally different wars.

Have a read why - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/aug/26/comment.usa1

The argument used in the link you provided is far too specific in giving the reasons they're not "exactly" the same (which is true) while my comparisons were far more general -

Vietnam - Unconventional forces (VC) supported by a Nation State (North Vietnam) led to a political defeat for the USA despite big military victories (Tet etc)

Iraq - Unconventional forces (Shia Insurgents) supported by a Nation State (Iran) led to a political defeat for the USA despite big military victories (Fallujah etc)

Afghanistan - Unconventional forces (Taliban) supported by a Nation State (Iran-Pakistan) led to a political defeat for the USA despite big military victories (Tora Bora etc)

So generally speaking (not exact specfics), both sets of foes in Iraq/Afghanistan learned their lessons in "how to fight the US military" from seeing how the US "lost" in Vietnam and applied similar tactics to nullify the military strength of the US, and all 3 led to political defeats for the US regardless of the success of any military actions.

So generalities, not specifics.
 
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I’m guessing that sometime in the future PBS America on U.K. TV may show the 18 hour original series.
[Thread necro, but it's history, so more like thread archeology]

I'm guessing this series is what's on Freeview PBS America now. I'm recording and working my way through it slowly. It's fascinating stuff, especially coming so close to the Moon landing coverage.

Anyway, I have nothing insightful to add to the thread, just thought I'd nudge it in case PBS have it on repeat. Think we're up to 7 of 10 tonight.
 
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