The problem with Apple is how they haven't brought anything revolutionary to the market, ipod/iphone/ipad were all really the first to do what they did without compromise however for the last few years they haven't really done so and just rely on people buying because of brand more than anything.
Apple losing its edge?
- Thread starter sesevans
- Start date
Must be difficult as revolutionise a market constantly, not sure where you go with phones and tablets now besides just making them thinner, faster or lighter.
Where someone needs to make a breakthrough is in battery technology, if Apple or anyone came along and said here's a top-end smart phone and btw it lasts a week on a single charge that would be massive. It seem though companies are going the route of making charging faster and wireless (and improving power saving modes) rather than dealing with the inherent issue of batteries themselves.
Soldato
The only Edge Apple have is the U2 one, by the nuts.
I think the hype has died down a bit when it comes to phones and tablets in general, but Apple don't seem to be losing their edge. Android phone manufacturers have almost given up trying to compete with them now (in terms of sales), and Samsung just roll out iterative updates much like Apple do.
People are expecting revolutionary products every year, that's not going to happen. When the iPod came out it took many, many years until the iPhone followed, and three or so years after that came the iPad.
Apple as a company seem to generate a massive level of hype when there's an announcement/launch, the products are viewed differently to others and that doesn't seem to be changing at the moment.
People are expecting revolutionary products every year, that's not going to happen. When the iPod came out it took many, many years until the iPhone followed, and three or so years after that came the iPad.
Apple as a company seem to generate a massive level of hype when there's an announcement/launch, the products are viewed differently to others and that doesn't seem to be changing at the moment.
Fact: approximately 9 of every 10 smartphones sold globally are Android phones, with Apple 1 in 10 phones sold globally. Notice you mentioned sales so I thought it best to be correct.
I believe Android OEMs would take a different view to yours. They do not believe they have or will cede any competitive ground to Apple. Hardly a week goes by without an Android OEM such as Samsung, LG, Huawei, Lenovo, HTC, Nokia, Blackberry, etc introducing a new flagship phone or variation of an existing flagship. Google is taking a more direct approach to smartphones with its Pixel lineup. This year they launched a second generation of Pixels and recently announced that they hired 2,000 HTC engineers and designers to assist these smartphone efforts and with other Google hardware.
Deleted member 651465
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Deleted member 651465
That's their own downfall.. consumers want to buy the latest and greatest and they're used to seeing "ooo shiny" Android phone default 123 launch in January 2018 but then Android Phone default abc is launched in February and consumers get that. Could half the people getting an android handset tell you which is the flagship model? Doubtful. Do many care? Probably not, but there's one thing you can guarantee; if you are on a contract and want to upgrade, Android will have a new phone for you.
Samsung are the single worst company in the phone market tbh.. chuck as many ideas at the wall as possible, hope they take off and if they don't just abandon them 30 days later when a new model is out. Not to mention their bloatware OS layered on top of Google's base OS and it's no wonder there's a market for custom ROMs. At least HTC tried to create some good handsets with some pretty OS and the Pixel builds on that again but android has a history of keeping the latest OS for the latest phones and suck2beu if your device doesn't meet the criteria for the next OS. Ultimately, android will never get around their biggest problem which is fragmentation. Apple's play on the other hand is to release a single flagship model every year so consumers know where they are. Granted, the iPhone X and iPhone 8 coming out was a stupid move IMO (confusing) but that aside, they continue to offer OS updates for as long as physically possible (typically 4 years, although I'd have to check) so you know that if you get the latest phone today, it'll be supported for as long as you need it.
I don't get involved in threads that quote numbers as I don't think you can compare android and Apple handset sales, particularly when the cost-to-entry is so much higher with Apple than Android. That's like arguing Ford are stronger brand than Ferrari because they sell more.. lolwut. If Apple made the iPhone and sold it for a loss (£100) they'd never be able to keep up with demand... people want it, but not everyone can afford it.
Of course I'm talking top end phones only. The latest Pixel for example is a great (but like the iPhone, expensive) phone, but in its market segment the iPhone will be outselling it no doubt. Samsung will be closest with whatever the best Galaxy of the time is.
I've been waiting many years to see if Android can offer a genuine competitor and to date they haven't. The Pixel is very interesting but not quite there yet.
You're looking at that wrong, you need to compare OEM to OEM not the OS. They compete with each other not just with apple. There are hundreds on frankly rubbish Android phones released every year with a handful of decent 'flagships' propping up the top end. There is also no money to be made in the Android space, most OEM's don't make a meaningful impact. Nokia, Motorola, HTC, Sony, LG, Blackberry are all struggling if not already dead. Sales numbers are dominated by Samsung and people that make $100-200 handsets but none make as much profit as Apple, not even close when they are all combined.
Apple are not mass market, far from it. They only cater to the high end so it's not surprising they don't sell the most units.
EDIT: The day you know Apple has list it's edge will be the day they are making announcements at places like CES and MWC. The two biggest consumer trade shows in the world for electronics and phones yet they don't even bother turning up.
Soldato
I’m in the same boat; I maintain an interest in Android purely to see if someone is ever going to make a phone that is competitive with the iPhone. I demand the whole package fully integrated (desktop, laptop, smartphone, tablet and watch).
Good luck with that, integration isn't happening any time soon.
Soldato
It’s a real shame no one seems to be prepared to compete with Apple. All these other manufacturers just seem to hand Apple all their money on a silver platter. And unless they do something about it, Apple will just keep getting bigger and bigger.
Very few OEMs are happy that they’re wedded to Android. Samsung has explored writing its own OS. Nokia and Blackberry both nearly committed suicide rather than use Android.
Very few Android OEMs make a reliable profit. As someone who’s worked for several OEMs, I can tell you that they’re terrified of Apple and terrified of the way that Android is commoditising the rest of the market.
Soldato
Yeah Android is terrible for manufacturers and customers. There’s a reason satisfaction rates for the iPhone are sky high and Apple’s profits are huge. Apple business model is win win for all concerned, Android’s is lose lose.
I don’t think that Android is terrible for consumers. It’s better than what came before it and suits most budgets.
It’s done exactly what the manufacturers feared Windows Mobile would do and destroyed the industry’s (with a few exceptions) profits though.
It’s done exactly what the manufacturers feared Windows Mobile would do and destroyed the industry’s (with a few exceptions) profits though.
Soldato
- Joined
- 1 Oct 2006
- Posts
- 13,900
Seems like a good a place as any to chuck in my 2p on this topic.
I was a convertee, like Feek I needed to know everything about my PC and looked upon OSX and Macs with disdain. They weren't "proper" computers. Until I started to use Solaris and the command line at work more and more, then I started using Linux at home and found the experience fell short. So I found myself looking at Macs thinking "that has a decent shell, they look nice and hey you can get Steam on this too!" and for a time it was good.
In fact for about 10 years it was good. I've owned 3 Macbooks, an Air, an iMac, a Mini, a Mac Pro, original iPhone, 3, 3G, 4, 5S, 6S, Apple TV, and a Series 2 watch.
However throughout this period of ownership I found myself getting increasingly irked by how Apple operate, putting aside the obvious "cult of Mac happy clappers" at every keynote and the "one more thingisms" of the brand I couldn't help but notice that beneath the showmanship veneer Apple are unscrupulous operators.
My most notable bug bear is Apple's reliance upon planned obsolesce to drive their sales, the gimping of features on models that can support them including:
- Handoff not working on <2012 Macs, even though the bluetooth cards support the low power features needed to run it.
- BootCamp not updated for Macs <2011 so no chance of running Windows 10. Even though the machines are more than capable of running it.
- Countless iOS features that required the latest model, even though the phones were proven to support it when jailbroken.
Then there's the declining quality of software updates, the never ending saga of declining battery life with each initial iOS update. Most recently I gave in to the incessant nagging to update to iOS 11 took my iPhone 6S that ran for 2 days between charges to just about making through the day. Then removing my ability to revert the phone back to 10.3 which was rock solid stable, which admittedly has always been a policy of theirs but still no less annoying to know that my device is forever less than it once was.
The recent performance throttling for devices that have "declining battery quality" was pretty crass, considering I never saw any throttling when my device was on 10.3 and lasting for 2 days.
My view is that Apple are fine so long as you keep buying their latest and greatest products, anything over 2 years and they actively reduce the functionality and lifespan of your device. Which given their apparently green position of technology production is kind of ironic to say the least.
Not to mention the fact that you've already paid a premium for the device in the first place, I expect more when paying that sort of money. It adds to the growing bad taste in my mouth the the individual items above fostered, in fact any one of the items above in isolation I can handle but over a long period of ownership they start to add up and become too hard to ignore. Don't even get me started about being "brave enough" to lose a headphone jack.
So I sold my Macbook. Bought an HP Elitebook. Windows 10 is pretty good, and VMWare Workstation allows me to scratch my command line itch with Debian etc. Battery life is decent too, and it cost a quarter of what my Macbook cost. Watch is going to the Mrs, and the last piece of the puzzle will be the phone replacement. It'll do for now, but I'm getting more tempted with an Android device each time I'm reminded I need to charge my phone daily again. This is the device I'll be saddest to lose as the iOS interface is the embodiment of "it just works".
The above context in mind and back to the OP, do I think that Apple are losing their touch? Yes, I think they've gone as far as they can under their current leadership and the product development isn't what it used to be. Instead there's the spin of "bravery" removing features and replacing them with dongles, there's the forced upgrade paths to drive repeat purchases, and the slew of quality errors in their software. How many OSX vulnerabilities have been discovered in OSX High Sierra since it's release for crying out loud? Not small ones, big blank password to elevate privileges type ones! Hardware design decisions will always spurn a debate but there's no escaping when the software is full of vulnerabilities.
I was a convertee, like Feek I needed to know everything about my PC and looked upon OSX and Macs with disdain. They weren't "proper" computers. Until I started to use Solaris and the command line at work more and more, then I started using Linux at home and found the experience fell short. So I found myself looking at Macs thinking "that has a decent shell, they look nice and hey you can get Steam on this too!" and for a time it was good.
In fact for about 10 years it was good. I've owned 3 Macbooks, an Air, an iMac, a Mini, a Mac Pro, original iPhone, 3, 3G, 4, 5S, 6S, Apple TV, and a Series 2 watch.
However throughout this period of ownership I found myself getting increasingly irked by how Apple operate, putting aside the obvious "cult of Mac happy clappers" at every keynote and the "one more thingisms" of the brand I couldn't help but notice that beneath the showmanship veneer Apple are unscrupulous operators.
My most notable bug bear is Apple's reliance upon planned obsolesce to drive their sales, the gimping of features on models that can support them including:
- Handoff not working on <2012 Macs, even though the bluetooth cards support the low power features needed to run it.
- BootCamp not updated for Macs <2011 so no chance of running Windows 10. Even though the machines are more than capable of running it.
- Countless iOS features that required the latest model, even though the phones were proven to support it when jailbroken.
Then there's the declining quality of software updates, the never ending saga of declining battery life with each initial iOS update. Most recently I gave in to the incessant nagging to update to iOS 11 took my iPhone 6S that ran for 2 days between charges to just about making through the day. Then removing my ability to revert the phone back to 10.3 which was rock solid stable, which admittedly has always been a policy of theirs but still no less annoying to know that my device is forever less than it once was.
The recent performance throttling for devices that have "declining battery quality" was pretty crass, considering I never saw any throttling when my device was on 10.3 and lasting for 2 days.
My view is that Apple are fine so long as you keep buying their latest and greatest products, anything over 2 years and they actively reduce the functionality and lifespan of your device. Which given their apparently green position of technology production is kind of ironic to say the least.
Not to mention the fact that you've already paid a premium for the device in the first place, I expect more when paying that sort of money. It adds to the growing bad taste in my mouth the the individual items above fostered, in fact any one of the items above in isolation I can handle but over a long period of ownership they start to add up and become too hard to ignore. Don't even get me started about being "brave enough" to lose a headphone jack.
So I sold my Macbook. Bought an HP Elitebook. Windows 10 is pretty good, and VMWare Workstation allows me to scratch my command line itch with Debian etc. Battery life is decent too, and it cost a quarter of what my Macbook cost. Watch is going to the Mrs, and the last piece of the puzzle will be the phone replacement. It'll do for now, but I'm getting more tempted with an Android device each time I'm reminded I need to charge my phone daily again. This is the device I'll be saddest to lose as the iOS interface is the embodiment of "it just works".
The above context in mind and back to the OP, do I think that Apple are losing their touch? Yes, I think they've gone as far as they can under their current leadership and the product development isn't what it used to be. Instead there's the spin of "bravery" removing features and replacing them with dongles, there's the forced upgrade paths to drive repeat purchases, and the slew of quality errors in their software. How many OSX vulnerabilities have been discovered in OSX High Sierra since it's release for crying out loud? Not small ones, big blank password to elevate privileges type ones! Hardware design decisions will always spurn a debate but there's no escaping when the software is full of vulnerabilities.
Soldato
- Joined
- 12 Jun 2008
- Posts
- 3,011
As a company I think that they are losing their edge. However, I don't see them losing out on sales any time soon. The simplicity of their lineup is incredibly attractive to people who are not tech-savvy, but want a decent phone that looks good.
People know if they want something good they can just pick up the new iphone, whereas with android its often not clear what may be a flagship unless you do a little digging. Samsung for example have cleared up their branding a bit lately, but it's still a mess. There's the galaxy A, J, S and Note, with subcategories in each. Then there's the 2016, 2017 models, and apparently a few more in the next couple of months.
In addition, people switched over to the iphone because it was a such a big leap ahead compared to anything else. In order for apple to lose out on sales, it feels like either another manufacturer will need to perform a similar leap, or apple do something that annoys people enough to switch over.
I think the latter is more likely.
People know if they want something good they can just pick up the new iphone, whereas with android its often not clear what may be a flagship unless you do a little digging. Samsung for example have cleared up their branding a bit lately, but it's still a mess. There's the galaxy A, J, S and Note, with subcategories in each. Then there's the 2016, 2017 models, and apparently a few more in the next couple of months.
In addition, people switched over to the iphone because it was a such a big leap ahead compared to anything else. In order for apple to lose out on sales, it feels like either another manufacturer will need to perform a similar leap, or apple do something that annoys people enough to switch over.
I think the latter is more likely.
Man of Honour
Sure it can be done on your phone, but everything that you can do on your phone can also be done on a laptop, it's about convenience. Sure, you may not value that convenience but doesn't mean others don't and at £35 for an Echo Dot recently, it's a trivial purchase with no ongoing costs.
Personally, I find if you have your hands full or dirty (cooking etc) then the ability to just say 'set a timer for 6 minutes' is extremely useful. Finding out we've run out of something or remembering I need to do something and being able to 'add x to my shopping list' or 'remind me to x at y' is valuable as I don't carry my phone around 24/7 at home.
I would anecdotally agree, I tend to leave my phone in my office charging now and use it less now, I can do much of what I'd use it for without it now. Side benefit is I'm much less distracted as a result - previously I'd take my phone out to change the Sonos playlist and then spend 5 minutes replying to messages, glancing at facebook etc....
I'd add though, while Apple make good products, often category leading still, I've been disappointed in the evolutionary development in the last few years. The Macbook Pro with Touchbar is a very expensive evolution of the Retina Macbook Pro I've had for almost 5 years now and I'm reluctant to upgrade despite knowing there's nothing better out there.
The iPhone X is great as a device and I love it but I'm glad that work paid the £1200 for it, because I'd not be wild about doing so myself as, while I find it an advance with the bigger screen in a smaller frame and great camera, it doesn't feel like a £1200 device when compared to previous iPhones at their launch time.
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Caporegime
I see lots of people talking about Apple getting rid of Macs and macOS but they've got something like 100+ million macOS users at the moment which is more than they've ever had in their history. Watching some old videos of Mac OS X launches and I think 10.3 Panther had 22 million so it's clearly grown since then. I do think they will begin the process of ditching Intel and AMD and using the "A" chips in their laptops, especially now that Microsoft has an ARM version of Windows which reputedly enables laptops with 20+ hour battery life. (Plus they seem to have enabled it so that 32-bit Intel code runs almost as fast as if was native ARM code.)
The 2020s are going to be interesting times indeed.
The 2020s are going to be interesting times indeed.
Deleted member 138126
D
Deleted member 138126
My young kids absolutely *love* the Echo Dots in the kitchen and living room. "Tell me a joke", "sing a song", "what's the weather", "how many days 'til Christmas", "play xyz song in the living room", etc. etc. For me it's mainly about playing music on my Sonos speakers "play xyz in the kitchen" and the weather "what's the weather". Alexa is really concise, and usually gets what you asked, so it's satisfying most (80-90%) of the time.