Juddery Clutch when it's cold

almoststew1990 · 16 Feb 2018 at 13:18

This week my car has started juddering when the engine / clutch? is cold. Although this week, it has been very cold outside too. It only happens when pulling away in first gear and it is very noticable if I pull away normally. Even if I am very gentle, I can still feel it trying to "pulse". It goes away when the engine warms up.

What could this be? The clutch (and master and slave cylinders) are 40,000 miles and 3 years old. The bite point is still quite low down the clutch and there is no slipping if I put my foot down in fourth at 20mph or 5th 30mph. I am quite mechanically sympathetic too - I don't hold the car on the clutch I use the handbrake and neutral, I reverse onto my drive every night and can get in and out without needing to do a 3 point turn or anything and I know how to queue properly without stopping and starting (important as I queue every day on the M27!) and I don't rest my foot on the clutch depressing it ever so slightly. It's bloody mollycoddled! One thing I do do is I blip the engine when changing down a gear to make the engine match the road speed to make downchanges smoother as they're pretty jerky if I don't do that.

When I googled it other people seemed to think to ride the clutch in a high gear at low speed to "clean it". Does this sound like a bad idea?

It's a e46 330ci.

Entai · 16 Feb 2018 at 13:54

Does it "pulse" as you pull away and feed the clutch in, or are you getting the issue when the clutch is fully engaged and you are accelerating slightly to build speed ?

Is the whole car pulsing/shaking so to speak, or do you just feel it through the clutch pedal; as you feed in the clutch ?

almoststew1990 · 16 Feb 2018 at 14:03

The whole car shakes. I feel the juddering when I gently lift the clutch pedal and depress the accelerator to build enough speed to completely come off the clutch

Vern1961 · 16 Feb 2018 at 17:21

I have had this on my new Kia Sportage when the weather is cold and damp so there's no way it will be clutch wear at 1500 miles. The Kia Owners Club recently had a thread on the same topic and it seems quite usual on modern cars. In fact my previous car was a Vauxhall Corsa Easytronic which used a conventional clutch with the automatic servos. That frequently juddered on a cold start pulling away but it was still on the original clutch when I traded it in at 11 years old/40k miles.

adolf hamster · 16 Feb 2018 at 17:27

stupid question, but you're absolutely sure your revs arent dropping? as needless to say if you drop them too low you'll end up shaking the car.

byteagig · 16 Feb 2018 at 17:50

I have had this with my car too, Fiesta zs with 19k miles on it and only in the last week or so.

danza · 16 Feb 2018 at 21:37

I have an E46 330i which is just the same and has been like it for my entire ownership (2.5 years). I just let it warm up for 30 secs and when the idle settles at 700RPM it's fine. My brother-in-law has the same car and his does it as well.

adolf hamster · 16 Feb 2018 at 22:01

danza said:
I have an E46 330i which is just the same and has been like it for my entire ownership (2.5 years). I just let it warm up for 30 secs and when the idle settles at 700RPM it's fine. My brother-in-law has the same car and his does it as well.

it isn't hunting is it? mine does that (325i auto) when it's cold and you set off too quickly. mate's non-scientific diagnosis was it due to the oxygen sensor in the exhaust, although afaik they run open loop control until warmed up.

danza · 17 Feb 2018 at 01:03

It doesn't seem to be hunting. The revs start off at about 1k, then over about 5 seconds they decrease to about 700 where they stay. Could be a sensor, but it's not thrown any codes at all.

My wife's E39 525i auto doesn't do anything odd at all, but I've not noted how the idle behaves when justed turned on from cold (probably because it doesn't seem to misbehave).

Magic_x_uk · 17 Feb 2018 at 06:52

Our Nissan Qashqai also does this when cold quite a bit, not when warm and not when the outside temp is higher.

Conscript · 17 Feb 2018 at 07:10

Dual mass flywheel perhaps? Does your car have one of these? These are exactly the same symptoms I had on our XTrail when the DMF started going...vibration right at the bite point. Although I think it was the other way around, it became more noticeable when the car was warm.

danza · 17 Feb 2018 at 08:27

Not sure it's vibration as such in the case of the BMWs in the thread, more that the cars tend to 'kangaroo' in first gear of you pull off to soon from cold.

Some info out there suggests it could mean the idle control valve (ICV) needs cleaning as it can apparently get gummed up and stick a bit. The symptoms us E46 owners are experiencing are seemingly accepted as a common trait, maybe I'll give my ICV a clean at some point soon to see if it makes a difference.

roadie · 17 Feb 2018 at 09:24

My 2007 Honda Civic 1.8 petrol started to do this more frequently before I traded it in and it was at its worst in cold weather. I always assumed it was the clutch on its way out.

adolf hamster · 17 Feb 2018 at 19:56

danza said:
It doesn't seem to be hunting.

fair enough, one mine it's very definately hunting (couldnt be the clutch anyway given it's doesnt have one), it doesn't help that my drive requires a lot of slow maneuvering before you can get out so a lot of slow braking whilst cold idling.

muon · 18 Feb 2018 at 01:44

I'm sure even brand new cars will have this? I have always experienced this where I forget. Internal friction of an engine when very cold will be high to begin with requiring more gas when initially started and moving off.

On a cold start my car will rev to 1500rpm. I don't normally move off at that rpm. So where I forget I drop the rpm too low and you get judder. The other issue is that you are used to a certain level of gas when moving off and are very good at that level. When you suddenly try to move off at say 2500rpm you might not be as smooth.

russ9898 · 18 Feb 2018 at 01:52

I had similar symptoms on my e92, turns out the propshaft centre bearing needed replacing. By all accounts it's quite a common failure on BMW's.

BUDFORCE · 18 Feb 2018 at 07:23

Oh yea to the original poster, my car does exactly the same and has for years. It's a Mitsubishi lancer 1.6 petrol.

I always wondered about that but now you posted exactly the same as what I get I'm even less concerned than I was.

I can't figure out exactly what is happening (I'm no mechanic but do have a basic knowledge of cars) feels like the plates in the clutch are bouncing but makes the whole car shudder.

Anyway good to hear that this kinda thing is somewhat common.