IVF, NHS & Kids waiting for adoption.

[dowie]

Obviously OP doesn't state 'force adoption over Ivf', it does state adoption should be encouraged over someone wanting IVF so they can have their own child

Yes, I read the OP thanks. I don't see what the issue is with encouraging adoption?

 

[eviled]

IVF involved lots of ovulation stimulating hormones and then ovarian drilling which is done through the side wall of the vagina under conscious sedation. Then t has a high failure rate and is a continuous emotional rollercoaster.

Me and my wife decided if we ever had trouble conceiving we would just adopt, our friends however have been having IVF for over 6yrs and despise everyone else who has managed to conceive naturally.

I don't think IVF should be on the NHS, and agree if you can't afford IVF then you can't afford a child

 

[Minusorange]

From an evolutionary aspect IVF is an abomination and goes against natures will to deem you unbreedable

From a human aspect IVF should be last resort if all other options have failed in you getting a child if you so desperately want one, but it should not be at the cost of the tax payer

 

[ci_newman]

From an evolutionary aspect IVF is an abomination and goes against natures will to deem you unbreedable

From a human aspect IVF should be last resort if all other options have failed in you getting a child if you so desperately want one, but it should not be at the cost of the tax payer

What a barbaric view. Diabetes or epilepsy are also a natural disease and evolutionary, should we allow children to die of these diseases because treatment should be a last resort and not at the cost of the tax payer? Jesus...

 

[icehot]

For me IVF should NOT be available at all on the NHS until the following is no more.

Current figures (from 2016-2017) show that there are over 4000 children in care/foster homes waiting for adoption, 75% of which are under 5 years old. Adoption rates are falling, 8% since 2015.

I feel that with so many children in care needing a 'forever home' we should be encouraging adoption over IVF.

Effectively you want to punish those are struggling to have children by restricting access to treatment because of something else totally out of their control?

Your seriously reaching. It's opinions like this which while may have good intentions make me boil over at how the logical aspect has been completely ignored.

 

[icehot]

What a barbaric view. Diabetes or epilepsy are also a natural disease and evolutionary, should we allow children to die of these diseases because treatment should be a last resort and not at the cost of the tax payer? Jesus...

Exactly, may as well take the same view for Cancer, heart attacks, aids etc. Just let nature take its course

 

[MrKnifey]

No views on IVF but me and the Wife have spoken about adoption and it's something we will be doing in the near future.

 

[Woogie]

Adoption isn't always as easy as people believe. my wife and I have some friends who tried to adopt a child instead of having a second themselves to help a child in need. Their application was denied due to the fact they were not a complete family unit as they did not speak to her father due to him being an abusive alcoholic.

 

[Diddums]

This topic has more shades of grey than a sexytime novel. I genuinely don't know which way to point, but suffice to say I do believe that everyone should have the right to be a parent. Where that kid comes from is an entirely different matter.



Actually, thinking about it, why not offer IVF treatment to foster parents who are in good staid? If someone can afford to maintain two kids but can't have any, offer them IVF treatment for free if they adopt a child. Everyone's a winner then. I dunno. Just a random thought.

 

[Minusorange]

What a barbaric view. Diabetes or epilepsy are also a natural disease and evolutionary, should we allow children to die of these diseases because treatment should be a last resort and not at the cost of the tax payer? Jesus...

How is it barbaric ?

You don't need to breed in order to stay alive, why should the tax payer foot the bill for what is a luxury and not a necessity to ones survival

I'm not sure how you can compare assisting ones survival with ones desire to procreate

 

[Dyson]

We were fortunate enough to have three children naturally, but if we hadn't then IVF would have been our first call, with adoption also on the cards.

I don't think some of you understand just what is involved, both physically and emotionally, when people go through IVF. I believe it should be available on the NHS, it's not something that's given out easily, there are strict criteria to reach, so it's hardly a free ride.

If you follow some of the comments in here, by the same reasoning, we shouldn't be treating smokers, drinkers, drivers, cyclists - they've all chosen their path, knowing the possible consequences.

 

[Rich1988]

It's an available medical treatment. A big part of having kids is continuing your genetic lineage. It's ingrained in us from millions of years of evolutions. Many animals kill other young so that their own will have a better chance/they can sire their own. I know we are a bit beyond that but essentially we are still driven by behaviours that evolved over timescales much larger than our modern era. Yes adoptions an option but IVF shouldn't be denied to people on the notion that there are children needing foster care.

(to clarify my other half does not need IVF nor are we trying for kids).

Natural selction isn't really a workable concept in humans anymore due to technological advances, however we still use the technology to cater to our basal insticintive needs.

 

[Minusorange]

If you follow some of the comments in here, by the same reasoning, we shouldn't be treating smokers, drinkers, drivers, cyclists - they've all chosen their path, knowing the possible consequences.

How is treating a potentially life threatening illness, disease, issue as a result of an accident the same as wanting a child ?

Are we going to start paying for people to have pets just because they have a desire to nurture something ?

 

[Delvis]

Yes, I read the OP thanks. I don't see what the issue is with encouraging adoption?

Yeah I'm not going there, can't be bothered talking to you as you're making something out of nothing again

Ta ta

 

[krooton]

As someone who was ambivilant towards having children, and only want to have them now as I have found the right woman, I will only be doing so if it is truly mine. Harsh as it sounds, I would never want to adopt, and have the utmost respect for those who do.

 

[AHarvey]

To turn this around:

Why should good people like my brother and his girlfriend be punished and denied IVF after they've been trying for 6 years because of some chav/scrote/****/smackhead/crack whore who are banging kids out they are unable to look after? They work hard, but it's a medical issue that is stopping them that IVF could help, why deny them medical help?

I am all for adoption, it's something we've spoken about if we couldn't and I wouldn't want to try IVF. We've already got two kids and have just lost a 3rd through a miscarriage. Granted a minority of the kids are in the process for reasons that are not in the parent's control such as death, rape or health issues but the majority are because of their parent's background and choices. Should we not put more effort into stopping these type of people from breeding in the first place? This would stop so many kids entering the system in the first place and such, not even being an issue for a knock on effect for those that would like IVF.

 

[lookitsjonno]

Shouldn't be included on the NHS unless it was caused by another condition unless it's clinically diagnosed (caused by cancer, depression etc). Perhaps it should be subsidised.

I think more people would consider adoption if IVF wasn't included on the NHS.

 

[Minusorange]

why deny them medical help?

Because having a child is not necessary to your survival, it's the same reason cosmetic surgery is not on the NHS and why orthodontic treatment is not covered past 18 years old unless it's life threatening

It's funny that you're in favour of banning people from having kids, whilst at the same time demanding payouts so you can have your own

 

[Desmo]

If you brought up a very young foster baby for example will it develop similar personality traits to you, I don't know?

I know...and I can tell you that yes, they adopt many of your personality traits
So many people say to us "oh, she's just like you", "she looks like you" and the usual things you hear and it's quite heartwarming...if only they knew the genetic link was zero.

When I was a young lad I didn't think IVF should be available on the NHS but as I grew older I accepted the idea more. Then when I needed it I was extremely thankful.

Our IVF never succeeded and I'm thankful for that too, strange as that may sound. The route to adoption was tough at times but so rewarding. We've made many great friends and, most importantly, have an amazing daughter...who's just like us

 

[GhostlyPea]

What's the yearly total cost to the NHS for IVF treatment as a % of total spend? I wouldn't be surprised if its a fraction of a percent, in which case it seems trivial to worry about

- GP

Edit - Quick Google figures show it cost the NHS 400M/year out of their 122B budget... so 0.0032%. Really not worth worry about if financial is the driver