Ryzen "2" ?

[MyBrainz]

Streaming PC is up and running..

AMD Ryzen 2700X @4.0Ghz / MSI Gaming Pro Carbon AC X470 / Sapphire HD 7950 / Team Group Dark Pro 8GB DDR4 3000Mhz.



Running Slow Preset / Main Profile with 6000kbps @1440x810p quite easily in OBS Studio with an Elgato HD60 Pro Capture Card. Stream quality looks really good. 2700X temps top out between 70c and 75c averaging in the 60's.

Just need to sort out a few audio things like a new Desktop Mic.

Very happy with Ryzen as a stream PC, just some audio issues need tweaking (it has been a ballache to figure out LoL)

I can do 4250Mhz with this 2700X but its kind of pointless in this scenario, would rather keep those temps down

Glad i didnt sell the 6700K as it has become the Gaming PC with the Dominator RAM and RX 480

Even more glad i kept the Sapphire 7950 tucked away.. might pick up something less power hungry in the future though as the 7950 can throw a bit of unneeded heat into the case while idling in the high 30's.

 

[chrcoluk]

They're not even generic, they're outright pants now Low durability capacitors, low phase counts, high resistance mosfets... some of them won't push much more than 100amps to the CPU. TUF is the exact opposite of Tough.

The motherboard market has turned pretty bad, and most reviewers have not worked it out.

Back when I built my haswell, midrange asus boards were genuinely better than low end, better VRM's, same bios options as ROG etc.

Then when I brought my mining motherboard a z270 board, I noticed a regression, the board was almost on par with my z87 board in terms of product placement and price but the features included on the board were significantly downgraded, in addition included accessories were also downgraded, the q connector wasnt even supplied. Another observation was also that bios features related to overclocking were missing and seemingly now reserved to ROG boards only.

Then we had the fiasco with what OC3D discovered on an asus strix motherboard review, I cannot remember the chipset, I think was either ryzen 1 or z370, where he couldnt even review the board because a key overclocking feature was completely broken, the voltage LLC setting, again working on ROG, broken on strix and below.

Finally we have had buildzoid and a german website analyse various ryzen2 motherboards, and discovered that almost everything below the very top end boards is like a low end board in terms of cooling and VRM spec. Mid range in terms of spec seems to have been discarded by the vendors. Even asrock are now guilty of this.

One of the reasons asus regression was not noticed is they had stopped sending out prime boards for review, and the strix regression was only more recent, and yes TUF boards which were initially unique are now basically just visually different prime boards. Also a lot of reviewers accept written specs supplied by the vendors as gospel and it needs someone like buildzoid to actually check if its accurate information.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Lots of motherboards even going back 6 to 7 years have had split phases. Yes,I have noticed all the RGB POS causing price rises - even the equivalent mini-ITX motherboards for CFL compared to Haswell have gone up by £50,but then again I wonder if people are getting way too paranoid about the reliability of the motherboards - Ryzen requires less power than the FX and Phenom II CPUs generally needed and a number of those motherboards only had 4 phases/split 8 phases and lasted years. If ALL these B450 and lower end X470 motherboards were truly going to explode,that means almost all the motherboard companies would go bankrupt as most of their sales are not high end boards and are to OEMs too who won't be overspeccing their boards due to cost. Most Ryzen and Intel builds won't be using £150 to £200 motherboards at all,let alone £200+ RAM kits.

I mean come on - does someone using a 2200G/2400G APU going to have to buy a £150+ motherboard and £200+ RAM. It would make little sense getting such a system!

Edit!!

Just a general observation.

Look on OcUK,you need to get to a £1200 system to even get a £135 motherboard - look at other retailers too. You need to be spending £1500 to get to a £150+ motherboard. OcUK is not alone in this,then look at all the larger OEMs like Dell,HP,etc who use their own OEM motherboards.

Some of you are literallty saying to use a £150 Ryzen you need a £200 motherboard,and it makes me wonder whether some of these review sites/channels are just trying to make people overly worry and buy stuff they don't really need. After all,don't you think motherboard companies would love someone who normally buys an £80 motherboard to suddenly buy a £200 one??

If I NEED a £200 motherboard to run a £150 to £200 CPU with £200 RAM,then Ryzen 2 and CFL can go **** themselves and I might as well buy a console or wait another few years. Yet,luckily so far none of the Ryzen builds me and mates have done have NEEDED one. They all seemed to work OK.

It was the same thing I remember back in the Phenom II and FX era when a number of people on forums were only pushing £140+ higher end boards,yet plenty of lower end boards still lasted years.

Not everyone building a system needs that extra 200MHZ clockspeed boost past the clockspeed/voltage wall(which hammers VRMs due to the excessive voltage needed),or needs that extra 200MHZ RAM frequency,when high frequency RAM is stupidly expensive for the actual increases you get(most times 3000/3200MHZ RAM is optimal in terms of price/performance) and technically anything over 2666MHZ/2933MHZ is overclocking the memory controller on CFL/Ryzen. Plenty of people don't even go that far and run the CPU on auto settings. Hence why MCE exists on Intel motherboards.

I suspect that most of these £150 motherboards will be fine for the average person,and the people who will have the issues are those who really want to push CPUs to the edge.

Sure there will be some especially ropey ones,but I am very suspicious when certain sites/channels start hinting ALL the sub £150 ones will "explode".

 

[4Qman]

Streaming PC is up and running..

AMD Ryzen 2700X @4.0Ghz / MSI Gaming Pro Carbon AC X470 / Sapphire HD 7950 / Team Group Dark Pro 8GB DDR4 3000Mhz.



Running Slow Preset / Main Profile with 6000kbps @1440x810p quite easily in OBS Studio with an Elgato HD60 Pro Capture Card. Stream quality looks really good. 2700X temps top out between 70c and 75c averaging in the 60's.

Just need to sort out a few audio things like a new Desktop Mic.

Very happy with Ryzen as a stream PC, just some audio issues need tweaking (it has been a ballache to figure out LoL)

I can do 4250Mhz with this 2700X but its kind of pointless in this scenario, would rather keep those temps down

Glad i didnt sell the 6700K as it has become the Gaming PC with the Dominator RAM and RX 480

Even more glad i kept the Sapphire 7950 tucked away.. might pick up something less power hungry in the future though as the 7950 can throw a bit of unneeded heat into the case while idling in the high 30's.

I have the 1800x and 32gb ram running some vms and plex for 4k streaming, runs nice and smooth.

Do you utilize the other cores for anything other than streaming?

 

[eddiew]

To be fair @CAT-THE-FIFTH all of the £150 boards will be quite fine for a 6-core even with an overclock, and shouldn't have a problem with 8-cores at stock.

On the other hand, you do have to step up to the top boards if you want to do 8-cores with an OC. My personal fear is Ryzen 3000 with 12-16 cores is an unknown. It seems likely that the top model is gonna bust the current TDP envelope by some margin, and what should be a solid AM4 upgrade path will not be because there is no margin for error in the midrange motherboards. They are good enough for today; just. But I feel like half the selling point of Ryzen is the upgrade options, and the board manufacturers are totally sabotaging that and ensuring that actually, you WILL be needing a new board next year after all.

Maybe I'll be proven wrong and there will be a 3900X with 16 cores and 95w TDP... I will be delighted if so! Few things would make me happier*! I just don't expect it to happen

(Also we are the overclockers forum - we don't want adequate, we want overkill )

* I'd be even happier with 6 cores at 6ghz, but that clearly isn't happening any time soon

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I heard similar things in the Phenom II and FX era too,yet there were plenty of solid cheaper boards,which enthusiasts on forums just ignored to push the most expensive ones.Yet,I did plenty of builds even using cheaper £70 to £80 boards which lasted years. In fact 100% of people I know who have built their PCs for gaming have sub £150 motherboards - the only people I know who have £150+ motherboards in gaming builds are enthusiasts on forums.

Many gamers having under £300 cards like the GTX1060,etc is due to cost. A GTX1080 is better but costs £200 to £250 more. So now its a £150 to £200 motherboard and £220 RAM for a £140 to £160 CPU,plus OFC lets get a £50 CPU cooler. At this point overclocking can go **** itself then. I will get a £80 to £100 motherboard, £160 RAM and stick with the stock cooler then and run the CPU on normal settings. I can save myself £200 to £250 which means a better graphics card.

Someone running a Ryzen 5 2600 at stock with a GTX1080 is going to have a better gaming rig than someone with an overclocked one with a GTX1060.

Unlike most of the reviews which seem to think world+dog has a GTX1080TI,people are still massively GPU limited.

Even £150 on a motherboard is stupid money for midrange parts. Motherboard companies have successfully made people think they "need" to spend double on motherboards for cheapo parts.

Not even OcUK uses £150 motherboards for its £1200 and under builds with 6 core Ryzen CPUs,and they are guaranteed for 3 years. Unless you are going for a 8 core X series CPU which are voltage bumped SKUs and also trying to overclock them,most of the £80 to £150 motherboards will be fine with a six core Ryzen or even a 65W TDP 8 core one especially if you don't really overclock or not really pushing it past the voltage wall on the six core parts which many here do.

Every single one of the Ryzen builds me and my mates have done in the last year have topped out at around £100 to £120ish for the motherboards,as people who had higher budgets tend to go KL/CFL. They were all fine,outside the RAM which needed tweaking. But even then systems we built last year had no real issues hitting the officially rated 2666MHZ speed,and 3000MHZ is doable in many cases anyway. Sure faster RAM is better,but that comes with bigger costs and more issues.

All these sites and YT channels need to be taken with a pinch of salt too - its in their own interests to push overpriced £150+ motherboards,etc and that is why for years most of them have concentrated on more expensive SKUs,since this is where the money is,and most of those motherboard companies would love someone buying a £140 CPU to spend more on the motherboard.

Edit!!

Also another issue - if you "need" a £200 X470 motherboard to run Ryzen 3000,you might as well just wait for the 500 series chipsets to come along and buy a £100ish 500 series motherboard and Ryzen 3000 and sell the Ryzen 2000 and 300/400 series board.

There is also other issues too - irrespective of how "powerful" a VRM is the fact it needs access to cool air,and most stock coolers are horizontal type coolers which blow air over the VRMs,and the reference VRMs are designed with this in mind.

Many of the aftermarket coolers tend not to do this,as they are water coolers or vertical type ones which don't push much airflow. Hence even a "decent" VRM can hit issues unless you have sufficient airflow in the case over the VRMs,otherwise the heat has nowhere to go and some of these complex setups can push a ton of heat too.

 

[humbug]

Its not just Forum posters IMO Buildzoid is one of the worst offenders of hardware snobbery, don't get me wrong i respect his knowledge but he is hyperbolic and extreme in his views of literally everything that is not a £300 Asus board.

This is a classic example, he looked at all B450 motherboards and concluded they are all not just junk but almost useless, really not very helpful at all when someone like me is pondering a B450 board and the message he is putting out is the VRM's will explode because they are all cheap junk and they all lie about how many phases they have.

After watching this i'm none the wiser, other than feeling i have to spend £200+ even for a 2600 despite my knowing about his scathing review of my current motherboard which has in fact served me with a good overclock since day two.

I'm begging to think this guy is just a bit of a D really.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The issue,is that people need to look at the data they provide and then use it in a realworld scenario. Jonnyguru does great PSU reviews,but you will notice more expensive PSUs will naturally get higher ratings than a cheaper one,ie,a £100 500W jobbie might get 9.8,and the cheaper £45 one might get 8.9 for example which is not rocket science as better bits can be used. This hardly makes the cheaper one poor,and for someone who is looking at a £50 PSU,the £100 one is irrelevant. Yes,when pushed the £100 PSU will be better,but for the most part the cheaper one would be fine especially for the type of buyer getting a £45 PSU in general.

Also Jonnyguru really pushes the PSUs more than normal and I remember in one of his reviews he said there were some issues with a Seasonic designed XFX PSU,but this was not seen by another review site which said they didn't see issues,and IIRC he basically said it was down to the way they tested PSUs themselves which could manifest itself in certain ways,and the other site wasn't wrong either in the way they tested stuff. This model of XFX PSU has proven itself over time to be pretty decent BTW.

Its the same with Buildzoid - its all relative to higher end boards. I saw the review he made of the motherboard board you have humbug,and he also for a brief second said it would probably be fine with a Ryzen 5 despite the criticism.

People are acting like Ryzen is another AMD FX FFS. At least with the Ryzen 5 CPUs,especially the 65W ones,they are hardly drawing tons of power.

It also reminds me of people thinking they need a 700W PSU,when a 450W one would probably be fine and even companies like Cosair have systems with a GTX1080 running off a 400W to 500W PSU. No wonder if you look at the actual power consumption at the wall.

Yes,its nice to have that extra power delivery in a motherboard,but seriously are people saying all the large OEMs,like Dell,HP,Lenovo,etc are going to have overbuilt VRMs on their Ryzen prebuilt desktops?? Warranties and support plans on these systems can be upto 5 years.

Even OcUK,on its cheaper Ryzen systems under £1200 have sub £150 motherboards and this is OcUK, a shop which will tend to use better quality parts. What about competitors who will use similar or maybe worse bits and still have to have a few years warranty??

The fact is IF Ryzen needs such expensive motherboards its dead to me as a platform,and I would just get an Intel based system instead TBH,because it would be cheaper overall,and for loads of builds that extra money is better put into a faster graphics card,etc anyway.

 

[humbug]

Yeah, My 1600 with its overclock draws about 110 to 120 watts stressed, compare that to the 4 core 4 thread 4690K @ 4.5Ghz it replaced was pulling about 160 watts stressed.

Maybe Biuldzoid needs to refactor his thinking because those B450 Motherboards with thier 4 phases made up of with 8 Inductors and low side Fets is a long way from a bad setup, the Z97 Gigabyte Gaming 3 with its 4 Inductors and Fets ran the 4690K pulling 160 Watts no trouble at all.

You watch that Video he is completely hyperbolic about VRM setups of the sort i described on the B450 boards, to me they look pretty good for £100 boards, you get the opposite impression from his rantings.

 

[pandem0nium]

The difference with psus are that the do actually go boom when you buy cheap poor quality.

I really enjoyed the 'Death of a gutless wonder' series by Johnny Guru for the tear-down and testing of the cheap psus.

I think solid, reliable boards have fallen out of favour since z170 and been replaced with "Gaming" RGB nonesense.

can I buy a UD5 anymore? nope. How about a solid overclocking sff Impact or Gene? proper Sabertooth?

 

[humbug]

Yeah i had a bad experience with a £45 750 Watt PSU, i think it was an iCute tho i can't remember, my HD 6950 with a snap, a crackle and a pop made it go up in smoke, blue smoke.... never again, these days i don't spend anything much less than £100 on a PSU, i have an EVGA 650 GS, it was £90 i have had its for 3 years and it been superb, very highly rated amongst reviewers and IMO worth every penny.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Yeah, My 1600 with its overclock draws about 110 to 120 watts stressed, compare that to the 4 core 4 thread 4690K @ 4.5Ghz it replaced was pulling about 160 watts stressed.

Maybe Biuldzoid needs to refactor his thinking because those B450 Motherboards with thier 4 phases made up of with 8 Inductors and low side Fets is a long way from a bad setup, the Z97 Gigabyte Gaming 3 with its 4 Inductors and Fets ran the 4690K pulling 160 Watts no trouble at all.

You watch that Video he is completely hyperbolic about VRM setups of the sort i described on the B450 boards, to me they look pretty good for £100 boards, you get the opposite impression from his rantings.

The issue is that if what he says is true,then you might as forget Ryzen as a platform if a £150 CPU needs a £150 to £200 motherboard.

The difference with psus are that the do actually go boom when you buy cheap poor quality.

I really enjoyed the 'Death of a gutless wonder' series by Johnny Guru for the tear-down and testing of the cheap psus.

I think solid, reliable boards have fallen out of favour since z170 and been replaced with "Gaming" RGB nonesense.

can I buy a UD5 anymore? nope. How about a solid overclocking sff Impact or Gene? proper Sabertooth?

The problem is people on forums sprout similar hyperbole about PSUs too, similar to motherboards - remember I mentioned a 500W £45 to £50 PSU getting 8.9 on JG and some £100 one getting 9.8 as a hypothethical example - the more expensive one is better but its not like the cheaper one will explode either. Some of the midrange PSUs from Corsair,etc around the £50 mark are solid. Sure a £100 one is better,but the cheaper one will still do the job.

People will use an example like that to say you NEED to buy a £100 PSU for your cheapo system...when the cheaper one will be fine and has all the protections too. You can't just look at price especially when I have had Seasonic based PSUs with Japanese caps for £35 before which will last years.

Then if you look at the PSUs in a mass produced Dell,etc they will be often lower wattage and might not even have as good quality bits inside.

Its the same with people thinking anything under 500W will explode and you NEED 600W to 700W PSUs even with midrange graphics cards. Like I said Corsair use a 400W PSU in some of its own systems to power a GTX1080,and I use a 450W variant of that SFX PSU to run one too.

 

[humbug]

The issue is that if what he says is true,then you might as forget Ryzen as a platform if a £150 CPU needs a £150 to £200 motherboard.

Exactly, i don't know why he's like this, mid range boards have had 4 Phase VRM's for donkeys years and they have always been more than adequate, what's his problem man?

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Exactly, i don't know why he's like this, mid range boards have had 4 Phase VRM's for donkeys years and they have always been more than adequate, what's his problem man?

The problem is he makes such statements but tons of prebuilt Ryzen systems will not use over £150 motherboards and many people building budget Ryzen systems won't either. So is he saying within the next few years,a large percentage of Ryzen systems will suddenly go bang?? Wouldn't that mean mass liabilities for the motherboard companies - I could imagine Dell,etc sueing them for selling subpar parts.

 

[humbug]

Its interesting (and i think but am not sure he said this in the B450 video) that he had not yet looked at Z370 boards, he's not going to find anything better amongst the sub £150 versions of them but i wonder if this has to do with overclocking? i think he's probably going to ignore B360 boards because they are locked.
Is it that there is a snobbery ingrained into some of these people who are basically used to working with over engineered over priced components? JayZ2Cents thinks almost all AIO's are basically junk, do they perhaps actually believe that components costing under $150 are all just 'the bare minimum required and nothing more' ?

They are spoilt to the point of being clueless in the real world.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Well I looked at one OEM system which uses Ryzen 5:

http://technewsrss.com/acer-aspire-gx-281/



So with a Ryzen 5 1400 Acer only has a 3+1 phase VRM it appears. Then this is the one HP uses for CPUs upto Ryzen 7 in its normal desktops:

https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c05634309

No VRM cooling and a 4+2 phase VRM. Here is the one they use in their Omen gaming PCs with a 95W TDP Ryzen 7 1800X:

https://support.hp.com/us-en/produc...es/15776604/model/16842113/document/c05521044

It looks like a 4+2 phase VRM with some heatsinks.

 

[humbug]

Yeah those are very cheaply made motherboards but still adequate for the job and you compare that to a £100 Gigabyte B450 with its 'crummy 4 phase 8 + 3 Inductors' like lol really?

No this is a damned good board for £100

 

[Zeed]

@humbug How many boards did died on You ??
So far I had 6 motherboard's VRM sections packing up in my life. One with actual smoke coming out of case with 2500k.

 

[Martini1991]

Yeah, My 1600 with its overclock draws about 110 to 120 watts stressed, compare that to the 4 core 4 thread 4690K @ 4.5Ghz it replaced was pulling about 160 watts stressed.

Maybe Biuldzoid needs to refactor his thinking because those B450 Motherboards with thier 4 phases made up of with 8 Inductors and low side Fets is a long way from a bad setup, the Z97 Gigabyte Gaming 3 with its 4 Inductors and Fets ran the 4690K pulling 160 Watts no trouble at all.

You watch that Video he is completely hyperbolic about VRM setups of the sort i described on the B450 boards, to me they look pretty good for £100 boards, you get the opposite impression from his rantings.

Isn't the point being that he knows what he's talking about regarding VRM's as far as the technicalities go, whereas neither you or I do for example?
It's the false marketing he's bringing attention to.

 

[Zeed]

Isn't the point being that he knows what he's talking about regarding VRM's as far as the technicalities go, whereas neither you or I do for example?
It's the false marketing he's bringing attention to.

Yup if it says 8 phase you Expect 8 phase not some ******** emulation.
For low or no overclocks they are fine.

You know how good VRM's are on C7H ??
When Im stress testing CPU package is pulling 230-240wat's and VRM's NEVER PASS 60c That is over 230% TDP.
And I dont consider this Extreme overclocking. Its what I'm running my system at 24/7 !!!
Extreme is when guys are pushing 270watts with 1.5 in to cpu for benching under water.