Leaving work - recalling wages

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior · 20 Sep 2018 at 16:18

Actually to expand on point above, now I think, day 1 you would simply resubmit the file, it would overwrite the other file.
Day 2 you can pull a specific payment back
Day 3 you could request but it was down to the recipients bank to action, and they may or may not transact.

There were escalating charges to do so for each day (2& 3)

rhysduck · 20 Sep 2018 at 16:20

Roar87 said:
Your friend was basically trying to steal from her previous employer, I'm not sure why you'd even post here looking for advice

Because the OP was not in a position to offer sound advice to said friend so came here looking for clarity.

buckeejit · 20 Sep 2018 at 18:28

So I emailed bacs as I was curious. They replied with:
A Bacs file recall can be initiated up to 5 working days ahead of Day 2 of the Bacs cycle (i.e. Processing Day).
The processing day is the day before the payment is due to arrive.

So what does this mean exactly? Does this mean that the bacs can only be stopped the day before its due to hit the account and that a bacs recall is not an option after money has reached the recipients account? Sorry, not the smartest tool in the box here lol.

arknor · 20 Sep 2018 at 18:38

does Bacs show as in the account but not useable before it actually clears?

Like I send 200

Account Balance 200
Funds Available 0

Pipe & Slippers · 20 Sep 2018 at 18:42

If the payday is the 25, the batch is submitted on the 24. The 24 is Day 1. The 25 is Day 2

Yes I believe it does show in your account on 25...so it's not as safe as you think it is

buckeejit · 21 Sep 2018 at 09:50

Received another email from BACS:

I can confirm that as Ben stated a Bacs file can only be recalled via the Bacs service before the file has fully processed. This process differs depending on the bank that your employer uses and therefore I would advise to discuss this with your employer if you are unsure of the process in place.

I still am none the wiser lol.

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior · 21 Sep 2018 at 10:26

Day 1 is submission, day 2 is processing, day 3 is clearing they use different terminology but these ones align more with what we think of.

You can electronically send the file many days before day 1. Typically people don't but you can.
So Day 1 the entries are into the system.
Day 2 they are sent to your bank for processing
Day 3 the funds are cleared, ie person A loses the funds and person B receives them (simultaneously to all intents and purposes)

Day 2 BACs as a function loses control. So if you request a withdrawl they have to ask the bank to reverse, it should happen but you are to some extent at the banks mercy.
Its quite possible with some banks on day 2 you may see uncleared funds, I used to with Santander if I logged in late on day 2. Day 3 they would be there fully.
The exact timings of banks processes of course vary.

buckeejit · 21 Sep 2018 at 11:02

I'm still unclear lol. What happens if my friend was paid on say 25th, just say she didn't leave until 2 days later - would they still be able to recall the money?

LeeUK · 21 Sep 2018 at 11:15

At my work they charge you if you don't return your uniform when you leave e.g they will deduct it from your final pay. We are paid 4-weekly with a week in arrears.

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior · 21 Sep 2018 at 12:46

buckeejit said:
I'm still unclear lol. What happens if my friend was paid on say 25th, just say she didn't leave until 2 days later - would they still be able to recall the money?

Then they wouldn't be able to recall it automatically.

Once they hand it over to the banks (day 2) the banks are processing it, at that point the banks will be in charge.
However that said, the banks (and they vary) will do things upon request based on their own procedures so they may (although highly unlikely) do a transaction after when they should.
I wouldn't expect any of our main highstreet banks to process anything after day 2.

Pipe & Slippers · 21 Sep 2018 at 12:52

buckeejit said:
I'm still unclear lol. What happens if my friend was paid on say 25th, just say she didn't leave until 2 days later - would they still be able to recall the money?

Well from what MKB says above, and what I know, no, as the 27th is Day 4

From my experience, recalling a BACS on the day it appears in your account (Day 2) is always possible, but inevitably, if you asked for it back at 11:59 pm, you would struggle

So perhaps I should say recalling a BACS during banking hours on the day it appears in your account (Day 2) is always possible

Energize · 22 Sep 2018 at 00:57

Angilion said:
Do you know her? If not, what are you going on? How you would react in the same situation?

A while back, a charity I make a regular donation to took £800 out of my account by mistake. I mentioned it to a few people, but I wasn't moaning about it. It was a mistake, they put £800 into my account within a day or two and I didn't care because it didn't cause me any problems. I didn't even notice it had happened until a couple of weeks afterwards. I mentioned it because it's unusual and therefore mildly noteworthy...like a BACS transfer being recalled.

She quit without notice, I don't think any wild assumptions are being made her personality here...

And what kind of mental set up do you have where you are giving charities etc access to your bank account like that as opposed to using a standing order?! If we use the "reasonable person" test that a UK court would apply, I think we would infer that most reasonable people would object to that.

Tefal · 22 Sep 2018 at 04:10

Energize said:
She quit without notice, I don't think any wild assumptions are being made her personality here...

And what kind of mental set up do you have where you are giving charities etc access to your bank account like that as opposed to using a standing order?! If we use the "reasonable person" test that a UK court would apply, I think we would infer that most reasonable people would object to that.

Indeed 800 out of an account could be kissed mortgage payments missed bills overdraft fee etc.

Whatever charity is is did not jsut make a mistake they made a mistake that should have somone dismissed

Angilion · 22 Sep 2018 at 05:16

Energize said:
She quit without notice, I don't think any wild assumptions are being made her personality here...

I do, obviously. Quitting without notice and being angry about not being paid money you shouldn't be paid aren't the same thing.

And what kind of mental set up do you have where you are giving charities etc access to your bank account like that as opposed to using a standing order?! If we use the "reasonable person" test that a UK court would apply, I think we would infer that most reasonable people would object to that.

Direct debit. You make a good point, though. It should be a standing order instead. I got caught by a chugger in town years ago. It is a good charity, though.

Tefal said:
Indeed 800 out of an account could be kissed mortgage payments missed bills overdraft fee etc.

Whatever charity is is did not jsut make a mistake they made a mistake that should have somone dismissed

A few years back, it would have been a problem for me. When it happened last year, I didn't notice for a couple of weeks. I have almost a year's mortgage payments spare in that account. If I took the money I've overpaid to my utilities company and put that in there too, I would have a year's mortgage payments there. I'm now doing rather well for a flunkey, but I'm in no way used to having money or how to handle it. To be honest, I'm still greatly enjoying not caring about money. The novelty hasn't worn off at all yet. I don't even know when payday is any more.

I wouldn't want someone sacked for an understandable mistake that had no adverse consequences. Someone slipped a bit on data entry. No biggy. The charity caught the mistake and returned the money long before I noticed it was gone. It cost me nothing. Had it cost me anything, I would have demanded that the charity cover the cost their mistake imposed on me...but that cost was nothing.

Haze · 22 Sep 2018 at 08:29

buckeejit said:
I understand that it’s their money but I didn’t know that companies were allowed to recall wages? Does anyone have anymore info on this?

Yes they can, Morriosns do it

buckeejit · 22 Sep 2018 at 10:27

Haze said:
Yes they can, Morriosns do it

But do you know the timeframe? Would Morrison’s recall it on the same day?