Confused! New AMD build with some unusual requirements

TheBigCheese · 20 Dec 2018 at 01:21

Hi everyone

I think the time has come for a computer update, I’m running on an i7 3770K at the moment and it’s showing it’s age in some processes so I’m looking for something with a bit more bite.

What I’m after is pure CPU grunt.
I’ll be using it for Photoshop, Premiere for 1080p / 2K and poss 4K video editing. Gaming is a hobby but that’s secondary to the requirements above.

Some of my applications can also utilise the GPU so I’m thinking of upgrading my current AMD R290X 8GB GPU.

------ *EDIT* ------
Here's what I'm looking at now, is this a good combination? I've gone overboard with the motherboard as I want the extra USB and SATA ports.

My basket at Overclockers UK:

1 x AMD Ryzen 7 Eight Core 2700X 4.35GHz (Socket AM4) Processor - Retail= £289.99
1 x Asrock X470 Taichi Ultimate AMD X470 (Socket AM4) DDR4 ATX Motherboard= £264.95
1 x Team Group Vulcan T-Force 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 PC4-24000C16 3000MHz Dual Channel Kit - Grey (TLGD432G3= £209.99

Total: £783.53 (includes shipping: £18.60)

Thanks!

------Back to original post------

What I'm upgrading

CPU
Definitely the AMD 2700X.
It seems to have the best bang for buck and being an AM4 socket will be compatible with future 3000 series from what I’ve read.

The i9 9900K is faster, but not by enough to justify the huge price increase for me. I’d rather spend that extra money on a GPU.

CPU Cooler
I’m going to stick with the stock cooler.
I won’t be overclocking as I’m not experienced with it and need computer stability over anything so I don’t think I need to budget for that.

Motherboard
I have no idea, I’m so out of date I’m completely confused! This is what I need though…

M2 SSD sockets – two of them if possible.
I really like the idea of very fast SSDs for video editing, using one as a source drive and one as a destination drive, that could help speed up the process.

Lots of SATA connections
I have 7 internal SATA connected drives at the moment including a DVD drive.

High quality audio
Equivalent to sound card quality if possible.

Idiot proof BIOS
So I can’t junk the board if a BIOS update screws up.

Lots of USB 3 connections
I have multiple external HDDs connected at any one time.

RAM
I’ve read that the new Ryzen chips require fast RAM so I will take any advice on what I should get.
I need 32GB for the sort of files I work with.

I don’t need any fancy RGB lights etc., just quality RAM with an easy RMA process should anything go wrong.
I’ve seen the Team Group RAM used in builds on here (never heard of it before), but if it’s being used in builds it must be good?

GPU
Well...this is tricky, I know a GPU purchase could dwarf all other spending. Again, I suppose it’s the best value card is what I need.

I have a 4K screen, it would be nice to be able to game at something approaching 4K at least, or 2K on ultra settings.

Is a 1080ti better than an RTX 2070? I don’t think I can justify spending more than £600 on a card so anything more than that is out.

I don’t need:
Case - already have a Cosmos
PSU - EVGA Supernova G2 1000W
CPU Cooler - using the stock cooler for the first time in years!

Thank you for any help guys, it’s much appreciated. Looking at components these days I feel like an old person trying to figure out what the youth of today are talking about, everything has completely changed! (In my day we measured CPU performance by clock speeds and we liked it!)

tamzzy · 20 Dec 2018 at 18:43

this is a tl;dr thread, but i read it anyway.
it appears that you don't have to upgrade just yet?
if so, i would suggest waiting. apparently AMD are about to announce their ryzen 3000 series CPU, that according to rumours (so please take with a large pinch of salt) will shake up the CPU market.
no point splashing out over a grand to see it devalue within the next 6-8 weeks (or getting more performance for your money, whichever way you want to see it)
if nothing appears over january, then by all means...

TheBigCheese · 20 Dec 2018 at 20:57

Hi tamzzy, thanks for posting. You're right, I probably should have tl;dr, I think I put to much info in there and put posters off.

I agree with you about holding off, in an ideal world. Here's my issue (and I hope this thread doesn't turn political), I need to upgrade anyway as things are taking too long, but I'm concerned about what's happening around Brexit. Should we crash out on a no deal, the pound will plunge, stocks will decrease and prices will rise, substantially.

I hope that will be avoided, but as I need a PC anyway I'd rather just push the button now and take any hit in the future but getting the benefits already of a faster rig.

The new AMD chips seem to have been coming for some time after I read about the arrival in another thread (it could have been you posting actually), and they seem backwardly compatible so if I really wanted one I could just drop one into the board I've selected.

tamzzy · 20 Dec 2018 at 21:05

What's your budget?
And what model is your psu exactly?

TheBigCheese · 20 Dec 2018 at 21:06

I'm trying to keep it down, under £1500 if possible. I'm keeping the cost down using the stock cooler and have binned the M2 drive ideas as that's too expensive.

*Edit*

The PSU is an EVGA Supernova G2 1000W

lltfdaniel · 20 Dec 2018 at 21:14

The stock cooler is half decent so yeah.

As for motherboards thread ripper motherboards support nvme raid to the fullest without bottlenecks.

Also buying a 1080ti would be a good idea because if you buy a used 1080ti you could save some money.

My 2 pence

Dan.

tamzzy · 20 Dec 2018 at 21:24

My basket at Overclockers UK:

1 x AMD Ryzen 7 Eight Core 2700X 4.35GHz (Socket AM4) Processor - Retail= £289.99
1 x Asrock X470 Taichi AMD X470 (Socket AM4) DDR4 ATX Motherboard= £209.99
1 x Zotac GeForce RTX 2080 AMP Edition 8192MB GDDR6 PCI-Express Graphics Card= £709.99
2 x Team Group Dark Pro "8Pack Edition" 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-25600C14 3200MHz Dual Channel Kit - Black/= £169.99
2 x Samsung 970 EVO Polaris 500GB M.2 2280 PCI-e 3.0 x4 NVMe Solid State Drive= £99.95

Total: £1,760.95 (includes shipping: £11.10)

RTX 2080 is approx equal to 1080ti, hence a 2070 is a downgrade. as daniel mentioned, you can get a preowned 1080ti pretty cheap nowadays (especially as you have MM access - this is probably what i'd get, rather than a 2080, if you don't need access to ray-tracing)
as you're spending that much, better to get decent ram, hence it's a bit pricier.
honestly i'd recommend getting nvme m.2 ssd for your usage (video editing). a solo 1tb nvme ssd is the best, but 2x 500gb works out cheaper currently.
difference between taichi and taichi ultimate is that ultimate has 10gbps ethernet port, up to you if its worth the difference (probably not). rest of the board is the same

TheBigCheese · 21 Dec 2018 at 00:51

Thanks for the replies guys.

It's a good idea lltfdaniel but as I'm looking for a work machine as well as a games machine, I need guarantees on the equipment so I'll have to just buy new.

tamzzy, that's a great tip on the motherboard, you've just saved me £55 there, thanks!

GPU
That GPU 2080 is tempting! it's cheap for a 2080, but the MSI 2070 is £470, that's a big difference, I need to think about that, don't know if I can justify the upgrade.

RAM
I don't really understand RAM much, but I had read that the Ryzen needs fast RAM so 3000 or 3200 was a must. I need 32GB of it so was looking at 2 16GB sticks.
What is it about the Dark Pro RAM that makes the upgrade worth it if I'm not doing any manual overclocking (obviously I'll let the auto-overclock do it's thing). Again, it's a hell of a price bump.

M2 SSD
Hmmm, that could be useful in my work tbh, for the file sizes I use, I wouldn't have to have a 1TB drive, 2 500GB would do the job!

tamzzy · 21 Dec 2018 at 07:01

TheBigCheese said:
What is it about the Dark Pro RAM that makes the upgrade worth it if I'm not doing any manual overclocking (obviously I'll let the auto-overclock do it's thing). Again, it's a hell of a price bump.

better compatibility. ryzen memory controller can sometimes be temperamental, unfortunately.
indeed it's better to run 2x16gb, rather than 4x8gb, but the cost of 2x16gb is more than 4x8gb unless you're willing to drop the performance.
defintely get 3000 or 3200 memory, its where the price/performance sweetspot is.
the overall system performance difference between 2400 and 3200 ram for ryzen can sometimes be in the region of 10%, but the jump from 3000 to 3200 is much less significant, probably in the region of 1-3%.

quoted from another thread:

Gibbo said:
You want Samsung B die this rules out Corsair generally.

You should be looking at:
Antec - unscreened B die
G.Skill - 3000 Trident Z and above is B die
Teamgroup 8 Pack - is all screened B die
Teamgroup TUF - Samsung b die
Gigabyte Aorus RGB - Samsung B die

Is where you should be looking as Samsung IC is the best.

TheBigCheese · 21 Dec 2018 at 12:08

Thanks for the help tamzzy, it's really appreciated!

I wouldn't have picked up on that memory issue, pointless buying a fast machine if it can be slowed down by something out of my hands! Same with the motherboard, that was a good saving!

Here's my basket now, this is what I'm going to get today.

I've got some Arctic Silver as well just in case I have to reseat the CPU, my other stuff is probably over a decade old!

Thanks again!

My basket at Overclockers UK:

1 x Asrock X470 Taichi AMD X470 (Socket AM4) DDR4 ATX Motherboard= £209.99
1 x AMD Ryzen 7 Eight Core 2700X 4.35GHz (Socket AM4) Processor - Retail= £289.99
2 x Samsung 970 EVO Polaris 500GB M.2 2280 PCI-e 3.0 x4 NVMe Solid State Drive= £99.95
1 x Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound (3.5g)= £6.49
2 x Team Group Dark Pro "8Pack Edition" 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-25600C14 3200MHz Dual Channel Kit - Black/= £169.99
1 x Zotac GeForce RTX 2080 AMP Edition 8192MB GDDR6 PCI-Express Graphics Card= £709.99

Total: £1,767.44 (includes shipping: £11.10)

EDIT - I've just realised I've made a mistake with the RAM, it's 32GB I need, not 16GB, I need it in two 16GB sticks so I can upgrade to 64GB later if needed.

tamzzy · 21 Dec 2018 at 13:42

TheBigCheese said:
I've got some Arctic Silver as well just in case I have to reseat the CPU

Get thermal grizzly instead. Better paste.

TheBigCheese · 21 Dec 2018 at 15:24

Ha ha, too late, order placed for delivery tomorrow!

Hopefully I won't have to use it, it's only for if I mess something up and have to reseat it (happened in the past).

Thanks again for the help! I can't say I'm thrilled at having to spend so much cash on a just-in-case-something-awful-happens basis, but I am looking forward to the new machine, it's been about years since I last upgraded!

tamzzy · 21 Dec 2018 at 15:28

TheBigCheese said:
Ha ha, too late, order placed for delivery tomorrow!

Hopefully I won't have to use it, it's only for if I mess something up and have to reseat it (happened in the past).

Thanks again for the help! I can't say I'm thrilled at having to spend so much cash on a just-in-case-something-awful-happens basis, but I am looking forward to the new machine, it's been about years since I last upgraded!

What ram did you get? Most 2*16 GB ram of b-die origin are either out of stock or pretty pricey at ocuk...

TheBigCheese · 21 Dec 2018 at 15:42

You won't like it...

I had found that issue myself with stock levels and pricing, so rang OCUK and spoke with a really helpful guy. We discussed what I'd be doing with the computer and importantly what I wouldn't be doing (hard overclocking) and he thought I'd be OK with the Corsair, so I've gone for that. Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4. It was pretty cheap (relatively speaking), so I upgraded to 64GB. In real world performance, whether it be video editing or playing games the guy didn't think I would notice a real world difference between the two RAMs running at stock speeds so I've taken that advice.

The only thing they really had in stock was the 8Pack big pack of 4x 16GB for £800(!). That was just totally unreasonable for my needs.
If it's wrong, don't tell me as it's too late now.

lltfdaniel · 21 Dec 2018 at 16:25

TheBigCheese said:
You won't like it...

I had found that issue myself with stock levels and pricing, so rang OCUK and spoke with a really helpful guy. We discussed what I'd be doing with the computer and importantly what I wouldn't be doing (hard overclocking) and he thought I'd be OK with the Corsair, so I've gone for that. Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4. It was pretty cheap (relatively speaking), so I upgraded to 64GB. In real world performance, whether it be video editing or playing games the guy didn't think I would notice a real world difference between the two RAMs running at stock speeds so I've taken that advice.

The only thing they really had in stock was the 8Pack big pack of 4x 16GB for £800(!). That was just totally unreasonable for my needs.
If it's wrong, don't tell me as it's too late now.

Yeah well for the price for the performance you better getting ram costing £100 for 2 x 8 gb sticks you will lose little performance when compared to 8 pack ram.

Well yeah £400 for 64gb of ram is doable.

tamzzy · 21 Dec 2018 at 16:34

TheBigCheese said:
You won't like it...

I had found that issue myself with stock levels and pricing, so rang OCUK and spoke with a really helpful guy. We discussed what I'd be doing with the computer and importantly what I wouldn't be doing (hard overclocking) and he thought I'd be OK with the Corsair, so I've gone for that. Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4. It was pretty cheap (relatively speaking), so I upgraded to 64GB. In real world performance, whether it be video editing or playing games the guy didn't think I would notice a real world difference between the two RAMs running at stock speeds so I've taken that advice.

The only thing they really had in stock was the 8Pack big pack of 4x 16GB for £800(!). That was just totally unreasonable for my needs.
If it's wrong, don't tell me as it's too late now.

it's decent
going from 3200 c14 (b-die) to 3200 c16 (other ram) doesn't lose a lot of performance (~1%), but memory compatibility may be an issue for non b-die ram (more pronounced when populating all 4 ram slots)
try and see, if not, can always return it saying it wasn't as described when you ordered
nothing lost

TheBigCheese · 22 Dec 2018 at 02:25

Hmm, oh really? What would I be looking out for, crashes or BSODs?

tamzzy · 22 Dec 2018 at 09:11

TheBigCheese said:
Hmm, oh really? What would I be looking out for, crashes or BSODs?

Usually won't run at its rated XMP speed (called DOCP in amd lingo)
Should run at 2400mhz though, which is a jedec standard speed. But if it were me, I'd be miffed...

TheBigCheese · 22 Dec 2018 at 10:28

Hang on, let me get this straight in my non-technical mind...

I've bought 3000mhz RAM.
It may run at 2400mhz speed because:

1. It's not entirely compatible with the board?
or
2. All four RAM slots are filled?

How would i be able to tell and how would that affect performance?

Obviously I'll have to test it today, the package has arrived already so I'll be building probably this afternoon.

tamzzy · 22 Dec 2018 at 10:35

TheBigCheese said:
1. It's not entirely compatible with the board?
or
2. All four RAM slots are filled?

combination of both.

filling all 4 ram slots places more stress on the CPU's internal memory controller, as does running the memory at a higher speed. so not all can do it.
as mentioned samsung b-die ram tends to play nicer with ryzen than other types of ram (hynix, samsung e-die etc), so the probability of running the ram at it's rated speed is higher

TheBigCheese said:
how would that affect performance?

ryzen's "infinity fabric" is based off ram speed (in layman's terms), faster ram speed, better performance - 3000-3200mhz is the sweetspot, anything above that is diminishing returns.
the overall system performance difference between 2400 and 3200 ram for ryzen can sometimes be in the region of 10%, as mentioned earlier

TheBigCheese said:
How would i be able to tell

when you've built the computer, leave everything at stock to ensure that the computer boots up - this is to ensure you don't have any DOA parts (ofc that doesn't exclude any malfunctioning parts, which you'll need to test individually)

then you need to set the DOCP in the bios to tell the ram to run at full speed.
then when booted up into windows, run CPUZ and it'll say in the memory settings bit. please note it's ddr ram, so it'll report the speed as half of its rated (ie 1200mhz for 2400mhz ram, 1500mhz for 3000mhz ram)