May have bitten off more than I can chew...MR2 Winter project

[ci_newman]

Hahah! I am happy to report, that I have yet to experience the strong arm of physics! *Crosses fingers* but I've had the back out on my previous RX8 and a Triumph Spitfire intentionally a few times, but I was younger then Ha Ha

Sorry I have been a bit quiet, university has been busy and I've been going for longer drives to check fuel economy on the car (and sort of playing chicken with my broken fuel gauge!) Currently getting 35+ MPG on long runs and 30+ on town driving. Don't want to really chance it past 300 miles!!

I've also finally put Toyo Proxes T1Rs all round. I've opted for 195/50/15 on the front and 225/50/15 on the back. All done for something like £212 with £25 fitting

I've heard mixed reviews of the Proxes but since taking it out in the wet weather, I haven't encountered any problems! Well not just yet anyway! I am still on the hunt for 16" staggered alloys, but I've got some brand new rubber for the next 6-12,000 miles at least.

I am going to get the tracking done tomorrow morning.

I also sorted my insurance out and got rid of the old 1999 plate Corsa B and used the money I got from selling it on the new tyres.

I also figured out that spraying WD40 in the seat belt retention mechanism has freed it up so no need for replacements, Yay!

Trust me, the MR format doesn't react in the same way as a traditional Front-engine RWD car. Take it easy, don't assume you know how the car is going to handle until you've played with it on a big flat area of tarmac In normal driving you'll be more than ok, but don't be intentionally trying to slide these things and especially take care in the wet & ice over the next few months. The lack of weight over the front axle is very noticeable compared to a traditional RWD car.

 

[kaiowas]

Make sure the correct process for adjusting the handbrake has been followed (The article linked is for a mk1 but the process is still relevant to the mk2)

https://www.mr2oc.co.uk/know-your-2/mk1.html?view=kb&kbartid=80

 

[Gamefreak501]

Thanks for your replies!

CJ_Newman - I have been passenger in an MR2 MK3 that as driven 'exhuberantly' on the track, but he seemed to know what he was doing! I am all too worried about losing the back end irreversably on the MR2 - so sticking to driving it normally, must keep my NCB intact haha I will be so gutted if I wreck the car and I'd feel very stupid! I may go to a skid pan course perhaps but I don't want to get into trouble in it on the public roads so I am taking it nice and easy. I think the lack of a spare wheel on the front is also cause for concern - that is going to dramatically reduce the weight on the front contributing to the pendulum effect of the rear going. I might try to quicken my search for 16s - even if I only get the two, because they could be used as spares anyway as long as the profile matches the front or back tyres.

Kaiowas - Many thanks for that link - I plan to give the handbrake another look over the weekend it's quite important really and was an advisory on my MoT and as I am no longer doing the sender/12v socket/heater cable anymore this weekend then I ought to look at that.

Unfortunately, that rain forest place messed up by sending my automotive trim levers to the wrong distribution centre and now they're sending it back to the sender (themselves ). So I am no longer getting my car trim levers, which would have been so useful for doing my 12v socket, fuel sender and heater cable, as I don't want to damage any of the plastics.

 

[Gamefreak501]

Hey everyone!

I had a good today, managed to resolve this lot:

1). 12v socket replaced
2). Fuel sender now working
3). Dynax S-50 inside Sill Cavities
4). Heater knob stuck between warm and hot.

Here are some pictures:

1). Two cans of Dynax S-50 cavity wax, finished completely! It dripped out of the grommets quite readily, so I know the cavities are now full up. I have had these for years, but thought it was worth finishing them off.

2). Centre console and radio removed, before fuel gauge was working:

3). Everything assembled:

4). Fuel gauge now working indicating less than full after 47.1 miles

The trim levers came in well handy, I got a set by Nielsen.


I thought I could get away by just taking the front off the radio, but unfortunately, the fuel sender and float assembly was blocked by the airbag deceleration sensor bracket, so I ended up taking this out, as well as the whole radio and tidying up a few of the wires in the back.

Believe it or not, the fuel sender worked straight away when a friend started moving it up and down, it seems it just got stuck, perhaps because it had been on empty for so long and had not been installed properly previously - causing the float to foul.

It was even tested in water and then after checking and double checking, it worked. Took an age to get to full though, but it's working yay!!

The sills were quite straight forward, I just pried the black plastic tread plates on both sides and filled with the injection lance each and every hole on each side, until it started dripping out, before putting it all back together again.

The heater issue was literally to do with how untidy all the wires were behind the radio - the iphone cable from the bluetooth box had got itself caught! I've taped that up and stuck it to the side of the glovebox and gear selector tunnel so that's out the way and I taped the rest of the wires together to keep them from uncoiling.

That just left the 12v, which was much easier to fit with the centre panel off.

Also, I finally got round to putting the back piece of undertray back on - it had been off since I had replaced the alternator!!

So that's a whole load of stuff done. Got this lot to do now:

1). Handbrake cable adjustment
2). New rear wheel bearings
3). Clean up and treat any rust on the undercarriage and sills (still all solid)
4). Clean up and treat any rust around the wheel arches (again, still solid yay!).
5). Turn my attention to the bodywork and suspension
6). New timing belt kit, idlers, tensioner's etc and water pump as I don't know when it was last done.

So the list is sort of getting smaller!! Just need to drive it to see how much range I get on a tank. Oh, I have a bad throat and headache from the petrol vapours as well ah well!

 

[vanpeebles]

I'm a big fan of Bilt Hamber stuff.

Here is a video reward for your hard work!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4KiFLoUGOQ

 

[The Running Man]

Not sure about the UK cars but if you can find a rev1 suspension set you can replace the inserts and freshen them.up that way! Rather than new struts.

 

[Kerazee]

2). Centre console and radio removed, before fuel gauge was working:

This pic reminded me of the short shifter I had fitted on mine, can pick them up on the bay for £20-30 made a real difference to the feel of the gearbox.

 

[Gamefreak501]

Thanks Kerazee!

I didn't consider the short shifter! I know it was something I was looking at on the RX8 but never got round to it!

Unfortunately, the work in older cars is never done, my release bearing is on it's way out - I am getting a low-medium pitch whine when I depress the clutch for longer than a second - and I know it's going to only get worse from here! I have been quoted over £400 for it, which I might end up paying - depending on if I can get an engine crane in my garage to do it myself, alternatively, I could get the back on axle stands and try things that way but it's winter and it's going to be a horrible job to do over winter, I just don't know yet and university work is taking all my time, hence the lack of any updates.

However, I did manage to find the right bonnet rod retaining clip (third time lucky!). I also started selling the spare parts I have - the clutch has to be funded somehow!

Probably should get back to my dissertation I'll hopefully have an update soon on the MR2 and whether or not I have the clutch done myself or by someone else.

Other stuff that needs doing:

1). Grind and Kurust around all the wheel arches and the backs of sills, wait a few hours then etch prime and paint.
2). Timing belt, water pump, rollers etc. - might do this with the clutch, if I get the engine out.
3). Gear box oil change - again, might do this with the clutch if I get the engine out.
4). Short shifter.
5). Sort out the passenger foot well heater, which keeps blowing cold.

 

[Kerazee]

Thanks Kerazee!

I didn't consider the short shifter! I know it was something I was looking at on the RX8 but never got round to it!

Unfortunately, the work in older cars is never done, my release bearing is on it's way out - I am getting a low-medium pitch whine when I depress the clutch for longer than a second - and I know it's going to only get worse from here! I have been quoted over £400 for it, which I might end up paying - depending on if I can get an engine crane in my garage to do it myself, alternatively, I could get the back on axle stands and try things that way but it's winter and it's going to be a horrible job to do over winter, I just don't know yet and university work is taking all my time, hence the lack of any updates.

Removed my engine twice, both times I did it by dropping the engine and gearbox out of the bottom of the bay by lifting the chassis high off the ground. But I thought there was a way to do the clutch (and release bearing) without removing the whole thing, might be remembering wrong though. It was certainly easier to split the bell housing and engine with it out.

If you do go whole hog and remove the engine and box it would be worth dropping the fuel tank and replacing the "pipes from hell" before you start seeing unexplained coolant loss.

 

[Gamefreak501]

I would expect it's an issue with the front wheel drive cars as well - getting the bell housing split so that the clutch and release bearing can be seen to versus dropping the whole engine.

I do have access to an engine crane, which with a capacity of 1 ton could lift the whole car for me, just need to figure out if it will fit.

I have read so much about those pipes from hell - shame I've just filled up but I'm heading to the 3/4 mark now so there is a chance I can actually drop the fuel tank as well to replace the 'pipes from hell' at the same time as getting the engine and box out. Reminds me, I must check the coolant level - although my temperature gauge is behaving, you never know how low your coolant is getting until it's too late and your engine starts overheating.

I still remember neglecting it in my old Corsa B and finding that my temperature gauge would shoot to 105 degrees Celsius before coming slowly back down...it had 1 L too little coolant in it and I was very lucky I didn't actually blow the head gasket, especially since I didn't bother with breakdown cover on it (though I have done with my MR2!!).

 

[Lashout_UK]

It's probably quicker and easier to lift the whole engine and trans out and change it on the floor, rather than messing around with it in situ.

 

[vanpeebles]

I'm not familiar with these cars at all, but any chance its on a subframe kinda thing, and the whole lot will drop onto the bottom?

 

[Akagi]

Why did you buy well known utterly crap tyres for an MR2

You going to practice drifting?

I had them on one of my old Mx5's and they were great for that in the wet... Definitely wouldn't fit them to something I'd want to actually stick to the road though.

 

[Akagi]

I'm not familiar with these cars at all, but any chance its on a subframe kinda thing, and the whole lot will drop onto the bottom?

I think it is... I can't remember who in here has one... People's usernames escape me... That blue one with the tri spokes. He's had the engine out. I seem to recall it all came out the bottom.

 

[-westy-]

I think it is... I can't remember who in here has one... People's usernames escape me... That blue one with the tri spokes. He's had the engine out. I seem to recall it all came out the bottom.

Dale?

 

[The Running Man]

Sign up to imoc they'll advise!!

 

[Gamefreak501]

It's probably quicker and easier to lift the whole engine and trans out and change it on the floor, rather than messing around with it in situ.

That's what I'm seriously considering now - seems the best plan

I'm not familiar with these cars at all, but any chance its on a subframe kinda thing, and the whole lot will drop onto the bottom?

It seems that way on a friends MK3 MR2 - so I might be able to get away with the same

Why did you buy well known utterly crap tyres for an MR2

You going to practice drifting?

I had them on one of my old Mx5's and they were great for that in the wet... Definitely wouldn't fit them to something I'd want to actually stick to the road though.

Haha, I think the moment I even attempted a drift on it, I would be the wrong way in a lamp-post with a broken clutch and a crumpled mess of bodywork left haha

But in all honesty, it was a budget thing - I've driven the MR2 in all weathers these last few months on the Toyos and I've not yet had problems with handling - even when it's been tipping it down with rain - but I'm taking it nice and easy at the moment so either I'm not pushing anywhere near hard enough for the problems to arise or the compounds and specification of the tyres have changed. I don't know if it's had any work done to the suspension or handling but it seems to be very poised. I'm running a profile of 50 all round though which might be helping. Also a friend has fitted those Toyos to every single one of his cars, including his MR2 MK3, so I figured that they can't be too bad, surely!

As is customary, I still have a list of stuff to do:

1). Treat the wheel arches and sills with Kurust before using etch primer and painting.
2). Tighten the drive belt as it has loosened with use.
3). Renew brake & clutch fluid.
4). Replace my lights with black crystal lights.

And if/when I take the engine out:

1). Drain all fluids (before engine is dropped).
2). Replace clutch with good quality replacement that includes an OEM release bearing.
3). New timing belt and water pump (again, OEM, probably from Toyota direct).
4). Driveshaft seals
5). Crank oil seals.
6). Renew gearbox, engine oil etc.

And if/when I take the fuel tank out:

1). Replace hoses from hell. May be able to bypass without dropping the tank.

There is a possibility I might be taking the engine out as soon as next week, depends how things go - as I don't know when the clutch, crank & driveshaft seals or timing belt were last done.

In an ideal world, I'll have the hoses from hell, the timing belt, water pump, fluids and clutch all done by January..but we will see, nothing ever goes smoothly! Plus it will keep it from touching the salt and ice on the roads these coming months.

 

[Kerazee]

Engine definitely comes out from below after the subframe comes off, with the rear control arms removed from the subframe there is even enough room to manipulate the drive shafts out if the hubs to prevent the requirement to pull them from the gearbox. Just don't forget to use a puller to free the splines.

And the Toyo's I always used them on my MR2, they are a bit soft though, used to get about 12 months from a rear set, but that was on 17" with dodgy camber due to lowering and poly bushes all round.

 

[Gamefreak501]

Thanks for your reply Kerazee!

I unfortunately didn't get round to dropping the engine over the Christmas break, I didn't even pick up the engine stand from a friend yet I've just been too busy with other stuff!

But, I did manage to achieve the following:

(1) Fitted new black crystal lights to the front, as the last lot came out, despite following all instructions and recommendations I put clear silicon around these, can't afford to keep replacing them:

(2) Bled and replaced all the clutch and brake fluid with DOT 4:

(3) Drained and replaced gearbox oil with GL4:

(4) Car also hit over 165,000 miles recently, though this photo only shows 164,992:

The brake bleed nipples were particularly difficult, but they came off eventually, I am thinking of buying a new set of larger bleed nipples, as one is a 7 mm and is quite chewed up.

The gearbox oil change was reasonably straight forward but the filler plug washer is pretty chewed up, so that wants replacing.

Replacing both the clutch and gearbox fluid has made a massive and positive impact on gear changes, they're a lot smoother now. Brakes were always very good as they've been up-rated but they're no longer spongy to begin with.

On the subject of the engine, I ordered a replacement OEM water pump and I am looking round for a compatible Rev 4 timing belt kit, but I might get that from MR2 Ben. I have no idea of the state of the timing belt on my engine and I can't actually check without stripping the whole cover off and taking other bits off, so I may as well bite the bullet and do the water pump, timing belt and idlers etc. at the same time considering the mileage of >165,000 .

I also had a right problem with my passenger side actuator motor - the part I ordered for a rev 2-5 didn't fit, as it was a 6-pin variant so I've had to send that back to get one for a Rev 1, with 4-pin plug. It looks like the electrics have been messed around with at some point or the car might have been imported.


Things still left to do:

1). Passenger door actuator motor replacement.

2). Handbrake adjustment - though I suspect a caliper slider or stretched cable.

3). Replace timing belt & water pump.

4). Drivers door mirror not going up or down - might need to replace as I'm not sure it is repairable, the car did come with a replacement driver side mirror, but it's the wrong colour, so that will need painting.

5). Fix the new exhaust leak - I suspect its from between the exhaust back box to an exit pipe - but I'll repair with gun gum or replace this, looks to be the same area as where the MoT tester picked it up.

6). Fast cold idle - I still haven't sorted this out, I need to sort this really as it could cause bore wash.

7). Treat, prime and paint the localised rust on the rear sill ends and passenger side wheel arch.

8). Re-do the previous owners repair on the wing as it is all dimpled and bumpy - I might look at a replacement drivers wing though if it is feasible.

9). Repair age and use related damage to the leather seats.

10). Fix the minor T-Bar leak (only occurs when it is really chucking it down).

I'm still really enjoying the MR2 - it really comes into it's own when I take it past 6,000 RPM (after it is warmed up!) which is where the power band seems to come in and I'm getting used to how it handles, but being careful about it, I'm surprised how balanced and well handling it is but do want to take it on a track day once I do the timing belt. I also discovered it has an MTX component system when I took the door trim and covers off.

MTX component system:

My MR2 'Sonic Shadow' after a wash

 

[Gamefreak501]

*Update*

Hey everyone,

So I got round to fixing the door mirror - I had to order another one from the internet, as the one which came with the vehicle; along with being the wrong colour was the power mirror 7-pin type with the wrong sort of connector (my connector was a 5 pin connector). But that is fully working now!! Plus it is a colour match, it was meant to be...ha ha.

Sorry - long post alert!

I actually had a similar issue with the first actuator I got for the passenger door - the wiring belongs to a rev 1 in the door, despite the car being a rev 5!

1). All trim/handle pieces off:

2) Door cover/panel off:

3) Everything back on:

4). Old and replacement mirror:

5). Bare door

6). New mirror installed

7). Super Sausage meet Only MR2 though

***Things left to do***

I think I should list these by priority! I have an inter-semester, week-long break next week. So I'm going to split my time between doing extra shifts at work, fixing my car and revising for my May final exams :O I've decided to prioritise MoT advisories above everything else:

1). Handbrake cable - this isn't getting any better and is quite poor. I want to sort it before I forget it by the time it's next MoT time - even if it means stripping the rear brakes/cable. Definitely the first job to do as it will no doubt give the largest headache, well, that and the bearing!

2). Rear offside wheel bearing - this drones sometimes at speeds above 50 mph and was an advisory. I've purchased a new rear wheel bearing kit and plan to hand the hub in to someone with a press to remove/fit the old bearing (if I fail to do so). I'm really not looking forward to this at all. But whilst the car will be disabled, it gives me an opportunity to fix everything below whilst it is stationary.

3). Rub down, prime and paint rear of sills - not a terribly long job, but fiddly with all the prepping, rubbing, prepping, rubbing and finishing up that needs doing.

***Non advisories to fix in order of priority***

1). Timing belt & Water pump - a week is probably not long enough to get this done and because my particular engine is not the interfering type I can go without, it's just damn inconvenient if it did go on me suddenly (despite my breakdown cover). I've had problems finding a decent and trustworthy source for a timing belt kit, but I need to find one as soon as possible - a supplier that can ensure and promise a quick turnover with a compatible timing belt (or go to Toyota themselves).

Although saying that, I have a waterpump already, with all the gaskets. I reckon in-situ I am looking at at least half a week without access to my car and I could actually approach this issue with the ISCV cleaning at the same time. Perhaps it is doable in-situ if I don't mind scraping my fingers and knuckles a bit, just a terrible faff. I do have an engine crane now, however. So could possibly take it all out.

2). ICSV - unfortunately this means removing the strut bars, the whole air cleaner assembly and two coolant pipes...but I have plenty of pink coolant as I will lose up to a coke cans worth of coolant on a cold engine. I may use this as an opportunity to fill the coolant system with new coolant and bleed it all, time allowing. With the ICSV, it should be a case of cleaning the valve with my brake cleaner, then I can say goodbye to screaming 1500-2000 rpm cold start idles. It's also a good opportunity to check for leaks with soapy water, in case these are also responsible.

3). Exhaust leak - this came back, a bit of gun gum later and it's resolved the blow but I will be looking at replacing probably the whole back box all the way to the catalytic converter. Unfortunately, as my car is a 1999 plate, I can't decat and get back some 5-20 horses! Unfortunately, new back boxes aren't cheap...but it is in a pretty bad state and needs to be done. Hopefully if I order a new assembly this week, I will have it in time to sort out next week, but I generally don't have issues with fitting/removing exhaust pipes as I'm too stubborn to let them defeat me ha ha (he says).

4). Passenger side door latch/actuator. Now that I have the correct part, with the correct 4-pin (rather than 6 pin) connector, I can replace this so that I have full remote/central locking. I can't imagine how many times I've left the passenger door unlocked before I realised it wasn't locking with the fob or from the driver side...but once I realised this, I started locking it from the passenger side by key, which resolves that problem. Looks to be a bit of an involved job and I've already had the door trim off on the passenger side a few times to survey the problem and to resit the MTX component box so it's not floating around.

Hopefully the latch won't be too fiddly to reattach to the pushrod mechanisms. I will be keeping the old mechanism rather than binning it, so I can replace the motor myself and have a working spare, as no doubt, the driver side one will go at some point. These particular actuators are a typical Toyota problem and widely known all the way through their Lexus and Toyota models.

***Less important jobs - to do when it warms up, by priority***

1). The driver side front wing repair done by one of the previous owners lets down the lines of the bodywork so I'll be looking to resolve this with a replacement wing which I'll paint and prep myself that is less rusty, or by attacking all the filler etc. on this wing. Bolting a new wing on is the easiest repair (provided, it is a sacrificial, bolt on panel, I haven't fully investigated).

2). Fix the t-bar looks. I've put this off so far because the leaks are terribly minor, even when I drove when it has been raining cats and dogs, I must have only seen a shot glass worth of water come through on the driver side and half a shot glass full on the passenger side. Also the expense of new seals is a bit hard to swallow, but the job, although fiddly could probably be done within a day. I've tried cleaning it up and adding silicon which improved things a bit, but these are not permanent fixes.

3). Fix the leather seats. The driver seat has some torn areas around the bolster and towards the top. I've re-upholstered before - way back in the mid 2000's when I had a Triumph Spitfire, for around £400-£500, pulling the hog rings round, pushing the squabs in etc. was hard work, but I managed it. However, I would like to maintain the originality of the seats and the interior, something that was lost when I went from vinyl to leather seats on the Spitfire...but I've yet to look at the options here. It's almost easier to just buy a set of good second hand ones from a breaker perhaps, but I'll look at the options when I need to.

***Performance thoughts***

Hopefully the engine won't ever go if I get the timing belt/idlers/waterpump/thermostat replaced - but it's done over 165,000 miles now, so I am making sure I put money away over the coming months so a large replacement engine bill doesn't knock me out for six and these are the options I am looking at:

1). Having the original engine reconditioned - bore increase, oversized piston rings, head skim, newly profiled 'performance' camshafts, new shims for the valves, new shells for the big-end bearings if the bearings are okay. Potentially a piggy back ECU which allows for better control over the performance settings (i.e. GReddy) I've not priced any of this up yet and engines are not something I can machine myself, I don't have the expertise, precision measuring gear or the time to fix this lot up myself.

But could be as easy as handing the car to someone, paying the money and getting them to do all the work with the engine in-situ over a couple of weeks. This should improve reliability and performance to some degree. Perhaps at a cost of £2k+. But I don't need to do everything of course, so there might be ways to not spend so much, this is probably the cheapest and easiest option overall..but who wants the easy way! Ha ha.

2). Camry 3.5L V6 transplant - a very popular engine swap/upgrade which can be done by Wood Sports etc. to the tune of £4k, with everything done for me - speedometer conversions, harness adjustments, gearbox/clutch changes, replacement of one or two engine mounts etc. A Camry engine itself can be bought for £900, but I will have to source the relevant engine mounts, the speedometer conversions and extra harnesses etc. and for me, potentially a 10-20+ hour job. So that £4k seems ever so tempting.

3). Sourcing a red top Beams engine for £1,850 and using parts of my engine to complete it. Nippon can supply one of these without a few of the ancillaries. It may even mate on to my gearbox without issues, or with minor changes made to the clutch/flywheel, but I am not sure how much of it is interchangeable, but the engine code 3S-GE is of course the same! Of course, Nippon themselves may be able to provide a fitting service.

4). Sourcing a turbo-charged 3S-GTE engine. From what I've read, a lot of the components of the 3S-GE and 3S-GTE engine are interchangeable, this might even apply to the Beams engine conversion above, but I don't yet know enough. A new short-engine head with turbo manifolds, re-routed coolant pipes, wiring, a highly tune-able piggy-back ECU, extra fan-cooling and some other changes may be a straight swap with just a head gasket replacement, but I've not explored this option; I expect it will be the cheapest or second cheapest option of the above.

I don't necessarily need the higher performance that lends itself to a higher cubic capacity, turbo chargers, super chargers etc. and owing to the problems which so many owners have reported with the turbo-charged variants of the 3S-GE engine, I am least inclined to go for the turbo charged option.

I do however want an engine that will remain reliable if looked after with regular fluid, filter changes, servicing etc. any advise in this area most appreciated! Of course, my engine has not failed yet (fingers crossed) but I need to look ahead at this possibility and since I enjoy driving the car so much; I don't want to outgrow it!

Thanks all for reading!