Road Cycling

[FishFluff]

Finally got in to Ride 100 at the 4th time of trying. Can’t wait to tackle Box Hill for realsies and compare it to proper northern climbs since all the Londoners I know try to tell me it’s basically Alp d’Huez

That said, getting me and my bike to London will be a logistical nightmare

 

[ShowdownPhil]

Finally got in to Ride 100 at the 4th time of trying. Can’t wait to tackle Box Hill for realsies and compare it to proper northern climbs since all the Londoners I know try to tell me it’s basically Alp d’Huez

That said, getting me and my bike to London will be a logistical nightmare

Box Hill is barely a hill. Monstrously over-rated.

I mean, it is a hill of course, but compared to some of the Yorkshite climbs it's a pussy cat. Hell, it's not even the hardest hill on Ride London (Leith Hill)

You wouldn't want to do it 9 times like they did in the Olympics, but once up it you'll wonder what all the fuss is about. I suppose it really is like Alp d'Huez in that respect (which isn't the hardest hill in tha region of the Alpes).

Decent cafe stop at the top thou I guess.

 

[Lethal`]

Box Hill is barely a hill. Monstrously over-rated.

Oi. Box Hill is like real hard. I've been there myself and there's always people on £10k bikes struggling up it!

(I might be a Southerner, and yes you're correct it's not that hard really... It's a nice surface and scenic though!)

 

[PardonTheWait]

Quick bike sizing question. I’ve had a 53cm boardman in the past and a 54cm CAAD8. I felt like they both were a little bit long, they felt fine in terms of stand over and so on but I always felt a bit stretched and ended up putting a shorter stem on the boardman.

I’ve now got my dads old BMC which is a 51 and I thought it would be too small but I really like it. May possibly put a longer stem on as when I’m out of the saddle is the only time it feels quite small.

I’ve seen a good deal on an orbea orca but ignored it as it’s a 51, then got to thinking. I put my heigh, 174cm and my inseam, 80cm into the Orbea calculator and that came out saying 51 is my size, but at 5”8.5 that seems very small? The Orca is a very aggressive design so I guess it will be long for it’s size, do you guys think it might be worth a punt seeing as I’ve liked the BMC for the couple of rides I’ve had?

Edit: drop etc was never a problem on my previous bikes, I could ride comfortably in the drops etc and I think I flipped both stems and removed spacers too, it felt as though purely length was bothering me. Is a very aggressive bike like Orca going to feel crazy uncomfortable? Saddle-bar drop like I said I don’t mind, quite like it even. I only want this bike for road riding, not commuting etc.

 

[FishFluff]

I'm really not an expert on bike sizing, but it's generally a good idea to compare lots of different measurements as bike manufacturers all size their bikes differently. For instance I ride a L Boardman, a 55cm Bianchi and on holiday a 53cm Specialized fit me perfectly. Do you have a local Orbea dealer you can go to so you can actually swing a leg over one?

 

[6thElement]

Quick bike sizing question. I’ve had a 53cm boardman in the past and a 54cm CAAD8. I felt like they both were a little bit long, they felt fine in terms of stand over and so on but I always felt a bit stretched and ended up putting a shorter stem on the boardman.

I’ve now got my dads old BMC which is a 51 and I thought it would be too small but I really like it. May possibly put a longer stem on as when I’m out of the saddle is the only time it feels quite small.

I’ve seen a good deal on an orbea orca but ignored it as it’s a 51, then got to thinking. I put my heigh, 174cm and my inseam, 80cm into the Orbea calculator and that came out saying 51 is my size, but at 5”8.5 that seems very small? The Orca is a very aggressive design so I guess it will be long for it’s size, do you guys think it might be worth a punt seeing as I’ve liked the BMC for the couple of rides I’ve had?

Edit: drop etc was never a problem on my previous bikes, I could ride comfortably in the drops etc and I think I flipped both stems and removed spacers too, it felt as though purely length was bothering me. Is a very aggressive bike like Orca going to feel crazy uncomfortable? Saddle-bar drop like I said I don’t mind, quite like it even. I only want this bike for road riding, not commuting etc.

Check the ST, HT angles and ETT on your various bikes. If the angles are all 73deg the ETT is what I use to compare.

I'm 6'2" riding a "55cm" frame, but it's a compact geo which has a 570mm ETT, which makes it roughly a 58 in general sizing.

I think the frame I just bought has a 54cm seat tube, so shorter again, but a 581mm ETT.

 

[PardonTheWait]

Angles on the BMC are seat 74º, head 71.5º, top top 530mm. The Orbea is 72º, 73.7º, 535mm so I guess just fractionally longer? which may hopefully be about right.

This is in comparison to the CAAD8 which is 73º, 73.5º, 545mm and felt just a little long.

Sounds like it would most likely be ok?

 

[Jonny ///M]

I had a 56cm Caad8 and a 56cm Felt but got away with a 53cm Orca with the OME frame as it was a 55.5cm top tube with an 11cm stem which tied in with 56cm with a 10cm stem for me.

Now I'm on a 56cm with a 12cm which looks pro, shame my body is shagged to **** haha

 

[6thElement]

Angles on the BMC are seat 74º, head 71.5º, top top 530mm. The Orbea is 72º, 73.7º, 535mm so I guess just fractionally longer? which may hopefully be about right.

This is in comparison to the CAAD8 which is 73º, 73.5º, 545mm and felt just a little long.

Sounds like it would most likely be ok?

This are all fairly similar, so different stem length and handlebar reach would also make a difference.

 

[Roady]

Didn't get into Ride 100 but will doing the Fred.

Good man!

<snip>
Pretty much every event I've wanted to do in one year!?

Good challenges & luck, but that's a pretty brutal April/May ahead of you! Good luck!

Finally got in to Ride 100 at the 4th time of trying. Can’t wait to tackle Box Hill for realsies and compare it to proper northern climbs since all the Londoners I know try to tell me it’s basically Alp d’Huez

That said, getting me and my bike to London will be a logistical nightmare

Hate to say it, if you're looking to tackle Box as a real challenge I dare say you'll be disappointed! Just when you're down there make it a couple of days and also ride Leith/Keith/RP 'just because'. (I've no idea how easy that is!)

Box Hill is barely a hill. Monstrously over-rated.
<snip>

Yup. Although I've only seen it many years ago driving past. Ridden it loads of times on Zwift, haha!

I can actually big ring most of Box (on Zwift), but not Leith/Keith.

Oi. Box Hill is like real hard. I've been there myself and there's always people on £10k bikes struggling up it!

Maybe it's just me, I read your comment in a real cockney/cabbie accent for more effect!

<snip>I put my heigh, 174cm and my inseam, 80cm <snip>

Short legs crew signing in!

Although I'm more 170cm high and 78-81cm inseam (31-32" in jeans depending on brand).

For comparison I ride a 54cm Giant Defy (M/L) (73º seat, 72.5º head, 56cm top tube with 80cm stem) and a 54cm Specialized Diverge (73.5º seat, 72º head, 54.7cm top tube with 100cm stem). I'm quite upright, can drop down quite low - but with short arms I can't stretch out into a traditional 'racing' type position very easily.

I'm going through a local fit guy here for sizing before buying a frame, my inseam/legs are probably more suited to a 52cm in the aero/race sizing I want for the 'summer' bike. Just want to make sure that's the case - can always play with stems sizings afterwards!

Now I'm on a 56cm with a 12cm which looks pro, shame my body is shagged to **** haha

Superman position! Looks > comfort!

 

[Lethal`]

Hate to say it, if you're looking to tackle Box as a real challenge I dare say you'll be disappointed! Just when you're down there make it a couple of days and also ride Leith/Keith/RP 'just because'. (I've no idea how easy that is!)

RideLondon goes through Richmond Park.

What is Keith?!

 

[Roady]

A climb on Zwift that goes up Leith!

To be fair it's just an extended Leith/different route so not geographically/factually accurate? https://twitter.com/veloviewer/status/948509657504600064?lang=en

My bad! Also I meant an RP lap, rather than just the bit RideLondon does (as don't think it's a whole lap, just the park bit?).

EDIT: Looks like my PWM needed a zero as far back as Tuesday! Shame that's not my real power output.

 

[Lethal`]

Yeah don't think that can exist in Surrey Hills. Leith Hill is the highest point in the area. There isn't a hill that goes higher.

 

[Jonny ///M]

My boss did some Flanders de Ronde race to the sky thing that other night and spent an hour climbing to the finish, he wasn't impressed/was bored out his head.

I had no motivation to go out in the rain last night but somehow went out for 70 miles today with a strong chap, well he was on holiday for a few weeks there, 18.6mph average until he crumbled. Then I crumbled after leaving him with 10 miles to the house, didn't help the rain came on and the wind felt worse than ever.

https://www.strava.com/activities/2130234499/overview

In the bank now though

 

[Shamrock]

Everyone slagging off Box Hill probably hasn't ridden it it in under 6mins.

 

[Roady]

Just going to put this out there as I'm not really sure I know the answer... It's more training related so kinda aiming this at @BennyC as he's been quite quiet on here recently - but equally open to all!

With Zwift, I've used the Tour of Zwift and Racing quite a bit this winter/year to 'get myself back on track', without many/any outside rides around commuting. I've followed no plan (as usual!) and being time pressured have just fitted these rides in whenever I can. The way I've ridden these I've got quite used to riding at threshold for an hour (sometimes more). I know this isn't sustainable or repeatable on the road.

Now the weather is getting a bit better (jinxing it now), the chance of me making one of the local group rides is increasing, what else should I be looking at doing to balance out my training a little - rather than just hammering out threshold rides?

Or is hammering out an hour of threshold fairly good for a fitness perspective, so when I do a couple of hours group riding on the road at tempo I'm not going to be dropped hard!

 

[xdcx]

Just going to put this out there as I'm not really sure I know the answer... It's more training related so kinda aiming this at @BennyC as he's been quite quiet on here recently - but equally open to all!

With Zwift, I've used the Tour of Zwift and Racing quite a bit this winter/year to 'get myself back on track', without many/any outside rides around commuting. I've followed no plan (as usual!) and being time pressured have just fitted these rides in whenever I can. The way I've ridden these I've got quite used to riding at threshold for an hour (sometimes more). I know this isn't sustainable or repeatable on the road.

Now the weather is getting a bit better (jinxing it now), the chance of me making one of the local group rides is increasing, what else should I be looking at doing to balance out my training a little - rather than just hammering out threshold rides?

Or is hammering out an hour of threshold fairly good for a fitness perspective, so when I do a couple of hours group riding on the road at tempo I'm not going to be dropped hard!

Your threshold values are wrong if you are consistently doing an hour at threshold (and more?).

Sweet spot will work wonders for you but you need to spend the time pedalling first and foremost. No avoiding that.

20mins warmup.
3x10mins at SS. 2 min recoveries between.
Progress this session to 2x20mins at SS (also with 2 min recovery!) then onto 40mins at SS.
Outdoors or indoors it will do good things for you at this time of year for the next 6 weeks or so before proper group riding starts. It is then you want to be doing sessions incorporating over threshold efforts but I gaurantee with consistency and progression as per above in the SS sessions, your FTP/threshold will absolutely raise by the time that comes around end of March.

Keep up commutes and get longer time in the saddle at weekends on steady rides.

Don't overthink it.

 

[merlin]

My training generally centres around races or rides in Zwift pretty much at threshold, and then I train with my club once a week and that's pretty much an hour of intervals, 20 on 40 off and 40 on 20 off. So, I suppose I get reasonable mix of training, but I generally do pretty much bugger all endurance type training. Whether I actually need any endurance type training I really don't know - because most of my outside rides are 40 to 50 miles tops, plus then maybe a couple of 70 mile sportives a year.

So anyway I'm not sure any of that helps - except the point I'm getting around to make is that yours and my training is similar, save for the fact I do an hour of hard intervals once a week whereas you tend to just do more of the threshold.

So, umm, try some intervals maybe - so when the hills come along you've got a bit of extra punch?

 

[Jonny ///M]

I don't stick to any plan as such but my mate has been doing so over the last few months and he is showing it. Sticking it into me on Tuesday, I can go with him but I don't want to be that fast at this time of year. At one section he was doing 370w downhill at 40ish, I could barely see and all I could see was the guy in fronts rear light lighting up raindrops going horizontal. Felt like I was in Star Wars or something.

He does things like

60RPM/260-280w for 6 minutes x 6
other nights it's SS training
He had one planned for last night with it being a warm up, 3 minutes @ 310w, 12 minutes @ 270w, 1 minute @ 400w with the last 15s being all in, 10 minute recovery then repeat it again.

I tend to just do good base miles, similar route to today a few weeks back was 220w average for over 2 hours 30 minutes(on my mates ride) and I was faster up climbs and was part of a 100 mile ride @ 200w.

Once the bunches start up then it's short sharp thing with my 1 hour being about 303w on one ride.

 

[Roady]

<snip>Then I crumbled after leaving him with 10 miles to the house, didn't help the rain came on and the wind felt worse than ever.

Your mates ride title sums it up!

Everyone slagging off Box Hill probably hasn't ridden it it in under 6mins.

Shots fired!

Your threshold values are wrong if you are consistently doing an hour at threshold (and more?).

Spoiler

Sweet spot will work wonders for you but you need to spend the time pedalling first and foremost. No avoiding that.

20mins warmup.
3x10mins at SS. 2 min recoveries between.
Progress this session to 2x20mins at SS (also with 2 min recovery!) then onto 40mins at SS.
Outdoors or indoors it will do good things for you at this time of year for the next 6 weeks or so before proper group riding starts. It is then you want to be doing sessions incorporating over threshold efforts but I gaurantee with consistency and progression as per above in the SS sessions, your FTP/threshold will absolutely raise by the time that comes around end of March.

Keep up commutes and get longer time in the saddle at weekends on steady rides.

Don't overthink it.

Apologies, I was talking HR Threshold, not power!

So my question is more - is it really a viable training method - pushing myself that hard?

Zwift Stage 1: 28mins Tempo, 16mins Threshold. HR Z4 - 47mins.
Zwift Stage 7: 37mins Tempo, 20mins Threshold. HR Z4 - 1hr 15mins.
Zwift Stage 9: 22mins Tempo, 14mins Threshold. HR Z4 - 53mins.
Zwift Stage 8: 20mins Tempo, 9mins Threshold. HR Z4 - 38mins.
Zwift Stage 6: 39mins Tempo, 14mins Threshold. HR Z4 - 26mins.
Zwift Stage 5: 26mins Tempo, 12mins Threshold. HR Z4 - 1hr 4mins.
Zwift Stage 4: 27mins Tempo, 10mins Threshold. HR Z4 - 40mins.
Zwift Stage 3: 25mins Tempo, 20mins Threshold. HR Z4 - 58mins.
Zwift Stage 2: 17mins Tempo, 7mins Threshold. HR Z4 - 46mins.

I'll always overthink it! For me there is no real 'season'. I just ride when I can. Theoretically as I try to miss the worst of the weather that does mean more rides in the summer... Or more likely I'll go out and ride hard, rather than riding hard on Zwift. I don't have the time to get 'steady' rides in - ideally they would be my group rides - a couple of times a month, doing a 3-4 hour social ride with climb efforts and a couple of sprints.