Any Transport Managers here?

markwilliams82 · 20 Mar 2019 at 19:45

Not sure if anyone on here can help or offer advise but I'm after some guidance regards to a license holder for a logistics company (small in comparison to the DHL's of this world - only 4 trucks I think)

A couple of months back one of the companies drivers got recruited as an 18T driver. He has the CPC qualification and believed he had the correct license hence applying for the job..turns out after being pulled over by VOSA for an insecure load, he didn't have an 18T license. Only 7.5T..

Nothing happened roadside except the driver being told he can't drive the truck so a replacement driver was sent in to take over and no visits to site to inspect the operation. After nearly 2 months, a letter has now arrived asking for the submission of tacho data, copies of licenses and insurance certificates for a compliance check

After the stop was investigated, driver in question was removed from all 18T driving and it appears it was an internal vetting error where the lack of license was missed by HR and the people completing the interview and a one off. All records otherwise are up to date including tacho downloads and analysis

What can he expect to happen or come of this? (Serious responses only please)

NoobCannon · 20 Mar 2019 at 20:33

Start stocking up on lube.

But seriously expect a huge fine no doubt

Robzere31 · 20 Mar 2019 at 20:44

From previous experience, company will be fined & depending on previous offences could have there operators licence removed.
Driver will be fined plus points plus possibly of disqualification again depending on previous.

markwilliams82 · 20 Mar 2019 at 20:46

Robzere31 said:
From previous experience, company will be fined & depending on previous offences could have there operators licence removed.
Driver will be fined plus points plus possibly of disqualification again depending on previous.

Cheers for the helpful feedback - its first "offence" so was thinking along the lines of serious warning or fine
Just strange how slow they've been on following up on it and not penalising the driver road side

Scania · 20 Mar 2019 at 21:29

This is a serious breach of your Operators license, expect the DVSA (preciously VOSA) to be going through your tachograph and vehicle maintenance records with a fine tooth comb.

I know a few drivers who have thought their CPC qualification was a gateway to a transport manager position, it’s not, the two types of CPC are entirely different.

I trust you’ve sacked him? There’s no way on this earth he legitimately thought he could legally drive a Class C 18 (17) ton vehicle on a 7.5T glorified car license!

I’m not a TM but 28 years of professional driving has taught me a thing or two.

K.C. Leblanc · 20 Mar 2019 at 21:41

I'm just a driver so not an expert. But might be worth having a look at https://www.commercialmotor.com where a lot of this sort of stuff gets reported.

It might well be a good idea to get professional legal advise as to how to best present this to the transport commissioner.

markwilliams82 · 20 Mar 2019 at 21:46

Scania said:
This is a serious breach of your Operators license, expect the DVSA (preciously VOSA) to be going through your tachograph and vehicle maintenance records with a fine tooth comb.

I know a few drivers who have thought their CPC qualification was a gateway to a transport manager position, it’s not, the two types of CPC are entirely different.

I trust you’ve sacked him? There’s no way on this earth he legitimately thought he could legally drive a Class C 18 (17) ton vehicle on a 7.5T glorified car license!

I’m not a TM but 28 years of professional driving has taught me a thing or two.

DVSA so far have only asked to see insurance documents, driving license copies and tacho downloads / analysis - no vehicle maintenance yet. Suppose because the case is driver based

Xplo · 20 Mar 2019 at 22:42

TM here. Best advice is to be completely open and honest about the circumstances of the incident. DVSA and traffic commissioners like to set examples occasionally, but for the most part they want to see businesses operating within the rules and regulations and if you can demonstrate you are making all efforts in acheiving this, apart from the constricting and regular follow up checks, they can infact (helps to get the right person as always) help you along the way.

Nevertheless your mate will still get burned fairly hard for this, fingers crossed everything else is absolutely spot on and he will come out the other end of it relatively unscathed other than out of pocket.

On a separate note though, it’s completely mind boggling how this was either allowed to happen or slipped through the net. I would suggest you suggest to him getting licence checks in place ASAP. He should be doing it already, and if he had done so this would have came to light.

TJM · 20 Mar 2019 at 23:46

Your friend should speak to a lawyer - there are plenty around the country who specialise in OL compliance.

Rroff · 21 Mar 2019 at 07:13

I only deal with 7.5T directly - procedures for above that are well above my level - but the onus is on the company to ensure compliance as mentioned above it will come down to the standards the company has been operating to - if in general the procedures are upto scratch and there aren't other serious issues chances are it will be dealt with lightly on the other hand if there are concerns especially other discrepancies coming to light they will come down like a ton of bricks.

Freakbro · 21 Mar 2019 at 07:17

Having been in front of a Traffic Commissioner for administrational errors with an Operators Licence, I would recommend employing a specialist transport solicitor and get ready to be bollocked thoroughly.

markwilliams82 · 15 Apr 2019 at 20:22

Freakbro said:
Having been in front of a Traffic Commissioner for administrational errors with an Operators Licence, I would recommend employing a specialist transport solicitor and get ready to be bollocked thoroughly.

Thanks Freakbro - what were you infront of them for?

VincentHanna · 15 Apr 2019 at 20:51

Company I worked for once got a hefty fine for the lorry being slightly over-weight, as did the driver.

This sounds very expensive!

Adam_151 · 15 Apr 2019 at 21:42

Scania said:
I trust you’ve sacked him? There’s no way on this earth he legitimately thought he could legally drive a Class C 18 (17) ton vehicle on a 7.5T glorified car license!

Theres definatly something odd there, although us young 'uns who passed car test after '97 can only drive upto 3.5T without an additional test (I think, correct me if I'm wrong, would be a C1 test?). So i'm assuming he did an extra test, rather than thinking his car license was enough, so either he got completely confused between C1 and C, which is still unlikely that if he'd done a test in a 7.5T that he would think 17T would be covered on that, is it possible that he did a C test and admin errors resulted in his license only having C1 on it when it came back, and him not noticing?

Whats the smallest vehile that could be used for a C test?, I assume tests don't have to be done in the biggest vehile in the class, after all the majority of car drivers pass their test in a fiesta/clio sized vehilce not a transit. Could he have been expecting to take a C test in a vehile not much bigger than 7.5T, say 9T (do they exist?), but instead got entered for a C1 test in a 7.5T vehicle?

Scania · 16 Apr 2019 at 06:46

Basically anything over 7.5T is effectively a Class C, C1 is 7.5T, yes.

It would have been made very clear to him which category of license he was doing his test for imo.

As for an administration error, I’d be advising him to contact the DVLA as a matter of urgency but I find this unlikely.

Freakbro · 16 Apr 2019 at 06:55

markwilliams82 said:
Thanks Freakbro - what were you infront of them for?

Our own stupid fault really, we had forgotten to inform them when we changed warehouse, so the registered place of the OL. It came to light when it came to renew and we were hauled over the coals.

Greebo · 16 Apr 2019 at 09:18

Freakbro said:
Having been in front of a Traffic Commissioner for administrational errors with an Operators Licence, I would recommend employing a specialist transport solicitor and get ready to be bollocked thoroughly.

This. My old boss years ago was told by his solicitor to expect a big fine, first offence etc. He was shocked when the judge decided to make an example of him and send him down for 3 months!

Yours is no where near as serious but proves the point that they dont mess around!