Labels and LGBT

Man of Honour
Joined
29 Nov 2008
Posts
12,844
Location
London
It's not just LGBT anymore. Keep with these progressive times! It's the current year!
Some are calling it LGBTQIA. Others have gone further. I saw one which made me think it was a town in Way-yells.
In any case, they have now included "paedophiles", or as they call them, "pedosexuals", within the ranks, and this is why ages of consent are under pressure across the West to be lowered, and why they are messing with children's heads at school.

LGBT+ is generally accepted as the 'full' group.

The paedophile thing is alarming but I wouldn't say it's LGBT people trying to make it okay, rather paedophiles trying to include themselves in the LGBT+ group for whatever reason. I'd guess to hide under the umbrella and try to label anyone who calls them out on it a bigot or anti LGBT.
 
Associate
Joined
18 Jul 2010
Posts
540
LGBT+ is generally accepted as the 'full' group.

The paedophile thing is alarming but I wouldn't say it's LGBT people trying to make it okay, rather paedophiles trying to include themselves in the LGBT+ group for whatever reason. I'd guess to hide under the umbrella and try to label anyone who calls them out on it a bigot or anti LGBT.
As far as I know, most Lesbians and homos don't include themselves in this cult, but for the people who do, they tend to think the same things. If "pedosexuals" are included, then they will have to accept it, whether or not they admit it.
Some homos are already throwing money at gyrating drag queen boys in New York.
For the stupid ones, LGBT is about having fun or gaining privileges disguised as rights, but for the evil ones, it's about destroying society and harming hetero people, whom they see as spoiling their fun down the ages. What better way to harm society than to attempt to normalise paedophilia and zoophilia, and so on. It happens gradually, step by step, but has accelerated in recent years now that they know the game might well be up soon.
 
Soldato
Joined
27 Jan 2009
Posts
6,563
I haven't fallen prey because I 'invented' it back in the early 70s.
I just knew there was something going on with people and there was a lot more to just male & female.
I'm glad a lot of people caught up with my thinking.

No you just became confused.

You didn't need to learn that from someone else as people are quite capable of becoming confused all by themsleves.

In your case I contest you have confused sex and differing personal identity and how this manifests in people in the personal and social presentation.

I can instantly tell your confusion because you talk of sex being on a spectrum and then talk about knowing 'trans people in the same post.

Having 'trans' people is antithetical on some levels to sex being on a spectrum.

Why? Because the whole idea of current trans ideology is that there is a binary in the first place for some people to be born into the wrong side of!

As a result of this binary such people wish to socially and/ or cosmetically 'transition' to present on the correct side of the binary and get terribly offended if people won't recognise and affirm their 'truth' of being on one side of that binary they believe they now belong to.

Sex isn't a spectrum it assigned not observed at birth with a tiny margin of error for some very uncommon chromosonal disorders.

There's no objective test that can diagnose being trans even less being on a supposed male female sex spectrum.

It's all down to what people think.

When Bruce Jenner was still called himself that every objective test would, if conducted blind, of resulted in a diagnosis that the subject was male.

Chromosonally, hormonally and physiologically just to start with.

People are different and think differently. Inherititance and your sex play a part as does your enviroment.

Theres some indication that there are some common behavioural attributes in the parents of people who go on to have trans children and that children are malleable to this and that at least in some instances that trans people are made not inherently they way the turn out to be.
 
Last edited:
Soldato
Joined
27 Jan 2009
Posts
6,563
Cows and dogs don't have societal roles or expected behaviours according to their sex,

Animals absolutely do have sex specific roles and expected behaviours according to their sex I don't know where people get this rubbish?

The idea of society is a human conception but when we observe animals we can observe that plenty have a social structure and that within this structure there are sex differences in roles performed, behaviour exhibited and what is permissible.
 
Last edited:
Caporegime
Joined
17 Feb 2006
Posts
29,263
Location
Cornwall
No, I'm talking about the XY genotype presenting as an XX phenotype, ie the kind so feminine that even they wouldn't know unless there was some in-depth medical examination, or if something internal didn't quite work as expected.
Like this one, from the other thread: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJxBhs1WAAAws1q.jpg
Affects approx 1 in 80,000 people.

I would happily accept such people as female. They tend to have their non-functional gonads removed due to cancer risk and HRT begun at a young age, to develop normally as girls. They never present as anything other than female.

These are girls/women who can become pregnant with IVF.

It's really the people who have significant male biological traits, or spent their adolescent lives as normal members of the "wrong" sex (in some people's opinions), who I can't accept as the gender they apparently want to be. So M2F trans, Caster Semenya, etc.
 
Associate
Joined
18 Jul 2010
Posts
540
Animals absolutely do have sex specific roles and expected behaviours according to their sex I don't know where people get this rubbish?

The idea of society is a human conception but when we observe animals we can observe that plenty have a social structure and that within this structure there are sex differences in roles performed, behaviour exhibited and what is permissible.

That's right. It absolutely essential that the two sexes have roles, and also are different to each other.

Males and females, under pressure, have converged over the years, so that women are resembling men, and vice versa, but in their nature, women are still wanting manly men, and men wanting feminine women.

What we have now, is a load of men plucking their eyebrows, wearing make-up, and shaving their chests, and women making themselves into tattooed monsters.

If men believe that women are just looking for men who are "hot", then they will not develop the traits which made their grandfathers attractive to their grandmothers.
So what do we see now? Loads of men who are politically correct and support the enslavement of even their own children.
Anyway........
 
Soldato
Joined
27 Jan 2009
Posts
6,563
Here's an article that hints at 'societally' sex expected roles in chimpanzee's

Basically a somewhat tyrant alpa male had a beta companion as his second in line and when the beta returned to the pack injured after being away for weeks the alpa was ostracised because he maintained his relationship with him.

You will note that he wasn't ostracised when his second in command was absent for weeks only when the alpa subverted the sex based expectation placed on him to be dominate by supporting his now somewhat diminished status ally in his former (high ranking) position.

As the male of the pack he was expected to keep relations with stong males and maintain the power hierachy.

Only when he subverted this expectation he was ostracised and then killed when it would have been at least as easy to do this when his ally was not present for weeks on account of his tyrannical rule alone.

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...der-and-then-cannibalise-their-former-tyrant/
 
Permabanned
Joined
3 Nov 2018
Posts
708
Location
The other side of The Gap
Animals absolutely do have sex specific roles and expected behaviours according to their sex I don't know where people get this rubbish?

The idea of society is a human conception but when we observe animals we can observe that plenty have a social structure and that within this structure there are sex differences in roles performed, behaviour exhibited and what is permissible.

Point missed entirely. Gender roles, identity, and the ability to identify as not conforming to that specific expectation. It's not a hard concept.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
29 Mar 2003
Posts
56,808
Location
Stoke on Trent
I can instantly tell your confusion because you talk of sex being on a spectrum and then talk about knowing 'trans people in the same post.

Yes but 'sex being on a spectrum' was when I was 14 in 1972 and knowing trans people is from a couple of years ago but you have conveniently put the two at the same time, are you a Journalist?
Nobody will convince me that humans aren't on some spectrum between male to female and the clincher was when a baby nephew came into the fold that we looked after nearly daily.
From a baby he was different, very gentle and he would always go for stereotype female toys no matter how many times we would lead him with stereotype male toys & behaviour, anyway, he is the family member that is transgender. We all tried so hard to take female traits out of him with no luck and it wasn't a surprise when he eventually announced it.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
5 Dec 2003
Posts
20,999
Location
Just to the left of my PC
"If you don't see my colour, you don't see my experience"
Said someone I saw quoted recently. You can swap 'colour' out for 'gender', 'sexuality' or whatever.

Basically, "I don't see race/gender/sexuality etc" isn't the enlightened, progressive position you might think it is. The world treats people differently because of these attributes: to have empathy for that, you first need to acknowledge that it happens.

You do not, however, have to perpetuate it and demand everyone else does and demand that it be made worse.

I don't believe in race. I don't care about gender. I think a person's sex should only be considered where it is genuinely relevant and only to the extent that it is genuinely relevant. I don't care what a person's sexual orientation is as long as it's about consenting adults (or objects - if someone's sexual orientation is to fences or whatever, fine).

I think that's the enlightened, progressive position. I think that the irrational prejudice and discrimination favoured by feminists and the regressive left isn't the enlighted, progressive position you claim to think it is.

"This is wrong. We should try to stop it happening" is a good position. "This is wrong. We should do it more and force everyone else to do it" is not a good position.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
5 Dec 2003
Posts
20,999
Location
Just to the left of my PC
And what is normal?

Are you saying a man who is attracted to men it's not normal?

Strictly speaking, yes. "normal" just means "what happens more often than not" or at least "what happens very often". The problem, I think, is that far too many people take the position that "normal" is an ethical term rather than a statistical one. Not only is that inaccurate, it also serves to coerce people into conforming to whatever is most common because everything else is being labelled as wrong.
 
Caporegime
Joined
17 Feb 2006
Posts
29,263
Location
Cornwall
Yes but 'sex being on a spectrum' was when I was 14 in 1972 and knowing trans people is from a couple of years ago but you have conveniently put the two at the same time, are you a Journalist?
Nobody will convince me that humans aren't on some spectrum between male to female and the clincher was when a baby nephew came into the fold that we looked after nearly daily.
From a baby he was different, very gentle and he would always go for stereotype female toys no matter how many times we would lead him with stereotype male toys & behaviour, anyway, he is the family member that is transgender. We all tried so hard to take female traits out of him with no luck and it wasn't a surprise when he eventually announced it.
But the toys he plays with plainly has no influence or bearing on his sex.
 
Soldato
Joined
17 Jan 2016
Posts
8,766
Location
Oldham
Yes but 'sex being on a spectrum' was when I was 14 in 1972 and knowing trans people is from a couple of years ago but you have conveniently put the two at the same time, are you a Journalist?
Nobody will convince me that humans aren't on some spectrum between male to female and the clincher was when a baby nephew came into the fold that we looked after nearly daily.
From a baby he was different, very gentle and he would always go for stereotype female toys no matter how many times we would lead him with stereotype male toys & behaviour, anyway, he is the family member that is transgender. We all tried so hard to take female traits out of him with no luck and it wasn't a surprise when he eventually announced it.

Sex to me means who you are attracted to. Being a transgender person doesn't change who the person is attracted to. I wonder sometimes if having trans-gender ideology promoted in to common language is some people who are gay would prefer to be transgender, because in their mind its more accaptable.

The problem these days is everyone pushes the trans label on those kids, and in reality they were just effeminate. For women who acted male-like they were called tom-boys. It didnt mean they were trans.

The times I've known trans people socially, the ones I talked to had an abnormal hatred for their male parts. I remember being in a social group and the trans person was telling really off the wall jokes about cutting off a penis and stuff like that. It made everyone else uncomfortable.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
5 Dec 2003
Posts
20,999
Location
Just to the left of my PC
LGBT is a grouping of non-typical sexualities and genders. What's phoney about that?

It's not a real grouping. It's only a group to people who believe in the basic tenet of irrational prejudice - "they're all the same"

But they're not all the same. People are people. Merely having the same sexual orientation doesn't make them the same. It doesn't make them part of a group because it's not something they chose. Even grouping on the basis of choice is invalid if the grouping is made too widely. For example, grouping all Labour voters together. Merely voting for the same political party doesn't make them the same by enough to warrant considering them as a group. To do it on the basis of a trivial biological characteristic is just plain wrong.

Also, the T doesn't fit in any sense, not even if you regard LGB as a single entity and T as a single entity. There's not even the vaguest commonality. The only excuse for that grouping is to create a "not bad" group identity to differentiate it from the "bad" group identity, i.e. everyone else.

You group me with Dennis Nilsen, for example. Do you expect me to accept that as fair?
 
Man of Honour
Joined
5 Dec 2003
Posts
20,999
Location
Just to the left of my PC
LGBT+ is generally accepted as the 'full' group.

The paedophile thing is alarming but I wouldn't say it's LGBT people trying to make it okay, rather paedophiles trying to include themselves in the LGBT+ group for whatever reason. I'd guess to hide under the umbrella and try to label anyone who calls them out on it a bigot or anti LGBT.

It's worked for T, so it's a good move politically.

On a tangent, "paedosexual" would be a more accurate and consistent description than "paedophile".
 
Man of Honour
Joined
5 Dec 2003
Posts
20,999
Location
Just to the left of my PC
Yes but 'sex being on a spectrum' was when I was 14 in 1972 and knowing trans people is from a couple of years ago but you have conveniently put the two at the same time, are you a Journalist?
Nobody will convince me that humans aren't on some spectrum between male to female and the clincher was when a baby nephew came into the fold that we looked after nearly daily.
From a baby he was different, very gentle and he would always go for stereotype female toys no matter how many times we would lead him with stereotype male toys & behaviour, anyway, he is the family member that is transgender. We all tried so hard to take female traits out of him with no luck and it wasn't a surprise when he eventually announced it.

You are mistaking sex and gender. You are aware that it's stereotyping - you used the word yourself.

"Female traits" would be things like ovaries, fallopian tubes, certain aspects of pelvis shape. Arguably things like breast size, some aspects of skull shape, relative density of body hair.

Things like preference in toys is a gender trait, not a sexual one. There are no "female toys" other than sex toys specifically designed for women and that's clearly not what you meant. You stated yourself that they are "stereotype female toys", not "female toys". So you're aware that they are gendered, not sexed, and that there's a difference between the two. Yet for some reason you're ignoring what you know and claiming that sex and gender are the same thing when they're so obviously not. Doing so serves no purpose other than imposing sexist stereotyping even more strongly that it was at any point in the past.

I'll pick Mary Somerville as an example...

She was born in 1780 in Scotland. She had a strong talent for maths and a great interest in it. Also pretty much every aspect of science (which wasn't called science at the time, but the idea existed even though the word didn't) and much else besides, but especially maths. In those days, especially amongst the upper classes, maths was considered a masculine area of knowledge. Sometimes extremely strongly so. Her parents tried to stop her learning maths because they thought it was a serious risk to her sanity, health and even her life. Other people disagreed and tutored her, in one case at considerable risk to himself. When she reached adulthood and had her own money, things became easier. She did what would now be called networking, developing a social/professional connection with various mathematicians, scientists and engineers. All of whom were men. They were rational people - they knew that it was very unusual for a woman to work in those areas but they didn't conclude that it was wrong solely because it was unusual. Those fields were very masculine, which simply means they were very strongly associated with male people. At that time, in that place. Gender is a statistical term, not a biological one, and is usually just a matter of fashion. So her areas of intellectual interest were very masculine, which was unusual but didn't make her wrong. Nor did it make her a failure as a woman, or even unfeminine in other ways.

However, pretending that sex and gender are the same thing would require believing that she was exactly that - a failure as a woman because she was male in the head. It would mean requiring her to say she was a man in order to be allowed to have "male" interests. It's just not right. People were more enlightened about sex and gender in early 19th century Britain. We shouldn't be trying to make that worse today than it was then, to impose stereotyping more rigidly.
 
Back
Top Bottom