Agree. Very little common sense needed if the advice is to report raised voices just in case. It seems the sensible approach given that any raised voices apparently mean possible domestic violence. I've already reported my neighbours tonight. Twice.
Would you sacrifice yourself for the nation?
- Thread starter Cryogenic
- Start date
Caporegime
Should we be burdening the police by sending them rushing to someone’s house every time a couple is having an argument?
No, but you should be aware of your surroundings.
I do however like how people moan about how the Police is a reactive force now, but wont help them be proactive, as if low-information is a benefit to them.
It's all well and good, until it isn't, until they murder the other person and then where were you?
I do however like how people moan about how the Police is a reactive force now, but wont help them be proactive, as if low-information is a benefit to them.
It's all well and good, until it isn't, until they murder the other person and then where were you?
Soldato
lol I read the story quite differently. I thought you meant he was shouting for her to get out the car because the car was on fire or something! lol
Soldato
At home, happy and not involved in the subsequent investigation and/or court case.
Associate
- Joined
- 3 Feb 2019
- Posts
- 747
Don't be so sure of that when the inquest coroner requests statements are taken from neighbours in terms of what was heard/seen pre-incident
My own comments were because there appears to be a complete loss of common sense and a big dose of sexual discrimination by some around this event. I completely agree that if someone genuinuely thinks there is the real threat of domestic violence then it should be reported. But the OP saw a couple having an argument. That's all. As far as we can tell he hasn't seen this same couple repeatedly arguing. He hasn't seen any physical attack. It was one time, and by their own admission the 'aggressor' was trying to close the situation down by (very loudly) telling the other party to go away. We don't know what caused the event. Maybe he was completely in the wrong or maybe it was triggered by some action on her part. We simply don't know. The man does seem to be in enough control to stop him turning violent as he initially walked towards the OP, but then had enough clear thought to stop himself and get back in the car. Someone with genuinely violent intent would probably have confronted the OP directly.
But, seemingly because it's a man shouting at a woman, there is an assumption that the woman is the possible victim of domestic abuse. I simply don't see any other evidence in this thread that either of those people are victims. (unless I have missed it - happy to admit I'm wrong if I have indeed missed it). It's yet another example in our society of assuming that because the person shouting is a man, and because the apparent victim is a woman, that the woman is lilkely to get abused by the man. This systemic prejudice has to stop. Yes there is absolutely a problem with some men hitting women (although from my own experience I have seen more women hit men - they just do less damage). But this is akin to systemic racism where we assume all black people are violent because there is a problem with inner city crime. It's systemic prejudice.
Recommendations to call the police are idiotic here. Our resident police special can't do anything but recommend we call them because that has to be the Party Line. But it's just a waste of already overstretched police time. I'd rather they were called to real abuse, real crimes, rather than having to investigate every disagreement between two people where there was no indication that any physical action was involved. Had there been an indication of physical violence then yes call the police immediately.
Minority Report much Komrade?
But, seemingly because it's a man shouting at a woman, there is an assumption that the woman is the possible victim of domestic abuse. I simply don't see any other evidence in this thread that either of those people are victims. (unless I have missed it - happy to admit I'm wrong if I have indeed missed it). It's yet another example in our society of assuming that because the person shouting is a man, and because the apparent victim is a woman, that the woman is lilkely to get abused by the man. This systemic prejudice has to stop. Yes there is absolutely a problem with some men hitting women (although from my own experience I have seen more women hit men - they just do less damage). But this is akin to systemic racism where we assume all black people are violent because there is a problem with inner city crime. It's systemic prejudice.
Recommendations to call the police are idiotic here. Our resident police special can't do anything but recommend we call them because that has to be the Party Line. But it's just a waste of already overstretched police time. I'd rather they were called to real abuse, real crimes, rather than having to investigate every disagreement between two people where there was no indication that any physical action was involved. Had there been an indication of physical violence then yes call the police immediately.
Minority Report much Komrade?
Soldato
- Joined
- 7 Aug 2004
- Posts
- 10,994
Not sure how OP initial story relates to throwing yourself under the bus for your nation?
Man of Honour
*sigh*
The majority of the work most response officers will deal with are domestic related, especially where I am and the policies my force has regarding dealing with them. Many of them are reports similar to what the OP has described.
We deal with lots of non-crime domestics, often they are innocent enough where there's been an arguments. Many of the people I see have dysfunctional relationships, aren't particularly emotionally mature and are poor at communicating. These are often written up and filed with no further action. They often feel like a waste of my colleagues and my time. Occasionally, reports (like the OPs) are the first contact someone has where the police make an intervention to stop severe domestic abuse. Remember, DA doesn't need to be violent, there are people (vast majority are women) who live lives constantly in fear of violence but aren't actually the victim of it themselves. They may see someone else being attacked and the threats are made clear about what may happen to them if they are to "break the rules".
Take the example below:
This is a photo taken from the house of a victim of domestic abuse. They were never directly the victim of violence. Police had contact previously and the victim had strenuously denied that anything was wrong. The cards on the stairs, punctured with knives are contact cards for domestic abuse charities. The threat is clear. They had been living a life out of a horror film for years, but to outsiders, they would look exactly as the OP may have seen. Domestic abuse is far more that the stereotypical wife beater who knocks around their partner after a Stella or two. It's about power and controlling behaviour and this is often far from obvious.
Look, I get your point, the majority of couples who are seen arguing in public are not the victims or perpetrators of domestic abuse. DA does happen in all sorts of relationships, gay, hetrosexual; both men and women can be victims. Dealing with these jobs does tie up a lot of police resources.
However, fairly innocuous calls to the police have saved lives. This is not hyperbole, this is not an exaggeration, it's simply a fact. Whilst it would be great that the police only get called for the serious cases, you can't differentiate from only the behaviour you see. It often takes a lot of work to get a proper disclosure from people who are incredibly frightened and that's what the police are there to do. So in the serious cases, it is often that person who you would consider sexist and melodramatic to make the difference.
*sigh**sigh*
The majority of the work most response officers will deal with are domestic related, especially where I am and the policies my force has regarding dealing with them. Many of them are reports similar to what the OP has described.
We deal with lots of non-crime domestics, often they are innocent enough where there's been an arguments. Many of the people I see have dysfunctional relationships, aren't particularly emotionally mature and are poor at communicating. These are often written up and filed with no further action. They often feel like a waste of my colleagues and my time. Occasionally, reports (like the OPs) are the first contact someone has where the police make an intervention to stop severe domestic abuse. Remember, DA doesn't need to be violent, there are people (vast majority are women) who live lives constantly in fear of violence but aren't actually the victim of it themselves. They may see someone else being attacked and the threats are made clear about what may happen to them if they are to "break the rules".
Take the example below:
This is a photo taken from the house of a victim of domestic abuse. They were never directly the victim of violence. Police had contact previously and the victim had strenuously denied that anything was wrong. The cards on the stairs, punctured with knives are contact cards for domestic abuse charities. The threat is clear. They had been living a life out of a horror film for years, but to outsiders, they would look exactly as the OP may have seen. Domestic abuse is far more that the stereotypical wife beater who knocks around their partner after a Stella or two. It's about power and controlling behaviour and this is often far from obvious.
Look, I get your point, the majority of couples who are seen arguing in public are not the victims or perpetrators of domestic abuse. DA does happen in all sorts of relationships, gay, hetrosexual; both men and women can be victims. Dealing with these jobs does tie up a lot of police resources.
However, fairly innocuous calls to the police have saved lives. This is not hyperbole, this is not an exaggeration, it's simply a fact. Whilst it would be great that the police only get called for the serious cases, you can't differentiate from only the behaviour you see. It often takes a lot of work to get a proper disclosure from people who are incredibly frightened and that's what the police are there to do. So in the serious cases, it is often that person who you would consider sexist and melodramatic to make the difference.
I get that it makes your job easier and can help some genuine victims. But I am dead set against the increasing State intervention in normal peoples lives. It really is turning into 1984.
Your pic isn't working. Not that it makes much difference what the pic is of as it doesn't change the point that no crime was seen by the OP.
This is just a case of whataboutary where I point out no crime was committed and you (and others) scramble to say "ah but whatabout unrelated cases where a crime is actually committed?"
Man of Honour
I understand that. How do we protect these sorts of DA victims other than the current wide net approach though?
edit: It's worth noting that I criticise this approach all the time, it does take up an inordinate amount of police resources, but I've never been able to work out a better solution.
Provide more help to get victims out of the situation they are in. Provide more education in schools about coercion and situations that lead to DA so they can identify when they get into such a relationship. Etc, etc.
Where does the nation come into this scenario exactly?
Man of Honour
That's not an easy solution. I totally agree that there should be more support, but even if this were there, there would be people still too scared to take advantage of it.
This is happening and should be pushed even more. This, ultimately, will prevent DA and is absolutely what we should be doing, but it will take decades to see the results. That doesn't help people now.
In both cases, I would like to disarm her as gently as possible.
True, but males are stronger than females in general so it is not a fair fight.
Last edited: