Misgendering? Sam Smith is now they or them, not he or him?!

Malt_Vinegar

Malt_Vinegar

Malt_Vinegar

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As detached from most forms of music as I am, the bbc ran this article today.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-49688123

Apparently if I want to refer to this singer, who happens to look like a man, I must not call them "he" or "him".

Ok, so that's his choice, but how does this work in the real world, and why does it matter? It's not like by calling them him, I am offending anyone? I would not know who he was if I saw this person in the street, so how would I know they dont want to be misgendered?

How can this be practically applied to the real world? Most people associate with a gender, so we make practical assumptions when we address people as to their gender. Do I have to check with every person I speak to about how I should address them? How can that be practical?

What am I missing here?
 

Hades

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If them wants to be called them instead then I don't mind. It doesn't harm me in any way. However I do follow Jordan Peterson's line of thinking that I would be very against misgendering being made a criminal matter, such as has been suggested in Canada. But if them would like to be labelled them, then I'm happy to call them them. But it's going to quite quickly get confusing :)
 

Tefal

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Malt_Vinegar said:
As detached from most forms of music as I am, the bbc ran this article today.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-49688123

Apparently if I want to refer to this singer, who happens to look like a man, I must not call them "he" or "him".

Ok, so that's his choice, but how does this work in the real world, and why does it matter? It's not like by calling them him, I am offending anyone? I would not know who he was if I saw this person in the street, so how would I know they dont want to be misgendered?

How can this be practically applied to the real world? Most people associate with a gender, so we make practical assumptions when we address people as to their gender. Do I have to check with every person I speak to about how I should address them? How can that be practical?

What am I missing here?
Click to expand...

the practical application is it doesn't matter when it comes to strangers, it's pretty much kinda like how you don't know someone's name till you talk and they tell you.


It's not rude to accidentally call them by the wrong name before that point but deliberately calling Steve Sally after hes told you its Steve is a bit rude.



Do I have to check with every person I speak to about how I should address them? How can that be practical?
Click to expand...


Just dont worry the basic social skills you acquired as a five year old will see you through just fine.
 

phonemonkey

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I'm not sure it affects me at all. Does it change the way I interact with that person beyond changing he to them to make them more comfortable? I don't see that it does, I mean we all treat everyone same don't we? It makes them more comfortable and has zero negative effect on me so they it is.

As for criminalizing misgendering; I was under the impression that for something to be a criminal offence there needs to be malicious intent. For example picking up your dropped wallet and putting it in my bag isn't a crime if I am going to the police station to hand it in, but is a crime if I intend to keep it. Therefore, surely making an honest mistake and misgendering someone would not be a crime, but intentionally misgendering someone with malicious intent would be. Not really much to worry about if you're not being an ****.
 

dowie

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Malt_Vinegar said:
How can this be practically applied to the real world? Most people associate with a gender, so we make practical assumptions when we address people as to their gender. Do I have to check with every person I speak to about how I should address them? How can that be practical?
Click to expand...

You don't need to worry about it tbh... they will tell you themselves pretty quickly if you get it wrong :D

ZbeAgyv.jpg

*** warning couple of swear words in the middle but relevant to thread ***


On a more serious note, I've got no problem using pronouns for the opposite gender for someone if they "identify" as the opposite to their actual sex etc.. I'll do "they/them" too, but beyond that I'm not doing and Xir/Xe or other nonsense combinations. If they don't want to be he or she then it is they and that's the default to cover all the BS ones people come up with.
 

Captain

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I wouldn't change the way I spoke to someone or what I called them even if it offended them.

I'm a **** though and fully aware of that.
 

Nasher

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But people will still introduce him as Mr? :D

Normal people don't ask what someone's "pronoun" is, I wouldn't. They will assume he is a man, because he is a man. If they get offended then they can be offended.

Suggesting we make not indulging in someone else's fantasy world a criminal matter is just ridiculous though.
 
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secretspy

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If that is how they want to be referred to then that is up to them. Obviously if you're talking about Sam Smith to someone and accidentally refer to Sam as "he" then they aren't going to be there to hear it and potentially be offended.

That said if people were talking about Sam in the press/online etc where Sam could see it I feel people should be polite enough to use they/them and not he/him.

I have a new colleague at work who is non binary. They said that they won't be offended if someone accidentally refers to them as her/she but would prefer we didn't, which is fair enough.
 
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