Misgendering? Sam Smith is now they or them, not he or him?!

Soldato
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I don't like the grammar of they/them, just doesn't scan well and wish we had a better neutral option in English. But that's my **** to swallow: I'm happy to make the effort to confirm to people's preferences.

Not that I've ever had to so far in real life.
 
Soldato
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His comment sounded very old fashioned. There are many people nowadays who identify as non gender or fluid gender.

In the real world, we call these people "crazy people" :D

OFC you can't say it in public or on the internet, or you get mobbed by crazy people.
 
Man of Honour
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I personally think there is a bit of a brand wagon going on with gender identity at the mo. Everyone wants in like pogs in the mid-90s. However, for some people, I feel a fraction of those with their pants/panties/non-gender specifc shreddies in a bunch, it is a very real and important concept. I'm happy to call people what every they want to be called, but suggest that they for an individual sounds retarded.
 
Caporegime
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I personally think there is a bit of a brand wagon going on with gender identity at the mo. Everyone wants in like pogs in the mid-90s. However, for some people, I feel a fraction of those with their pants/panties/non-gender specifc shreddies in a bunch, it is a very real and important concept. I'm happy to call people what every they want to be called, but suggest that they for an individual sounds retarded.

They is entirely valid for a quantity of 1.
 
Caporegime
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People who want their own pronouns are basically massive narcissists, a product of the age of the social media. It's madness that others are expected to go along with it for fear of suddenly becoming far right. Liberals talk about oppression all of the time but they are the ones always trying to dictate how others must act. Jazz hands if you agree.
 
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Soldato
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I personally think there is a bit of a brand wagon going on with gender identity at the mo. Everyone wants in like pogs in the mid-90s. However, for some people, I feel a fraction of those with their pants/panties/non-gender specifc shreddies in a bunch, it is a very real and important concept. I'm happy to call people what every they want to be called, but suggest that they for an individual sounds retarded.

The whole thing is retarded.
 
Man of Honour
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It doesn’t seem much different to people with titles. I might be more used to it as I work in higher education, but there’s been a few times where I’ve referred to someone as Mr or Ms and they’ve corrected me and insisted on Dr instead. No biggie.
 

Deleted member 651465

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Deleted member 651465

Speaking at London's first ever Trans Pride event, Aisha Brown, 37, welcomed Smith's announcement, saying: "We definitely need more non-binary people in the public space, being visibly non-binary.

"People have incredibly diverse experiences of being non-binary and transgender, but it's a very wide community and we welcome everyone."

Jake Gallagher, 27, says it is "great" Smith has come out as non-binary, adding: "The more people in the mainstream that come out as trans or non-binary is just going to help, especially someone like Sam, who has got a large platform.

"For him to spread the message is very important, it will get to a lot of people in small towns and villages outside of London."

Awkward. People at the trans pride parade can’t even get it right, where’s the hope for us?
 
Man of Honour
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Is there more than one of him? They/them is plural.

Yes, but it has also been used as ungendered singular for at least a few hundred years. English hasn't had an explicitly ungendered singular personal pronoun for ages, so people make do. Since "they" is already ungendered, may as well use that. There's scope for confusion about whether it's intended as singular or plural, but English is full of ambiguity and people manage. It's more practical than trying to shoehorn in a new pronoun, which everyone+dog will just ignore.

I like ungendered language. What I don't like is pretending that sex and gender are the same thing, which this person is also doing. The only reason for doing that is to increase sexism, which I dislike. They can change gender as much as they like, but that's not the same as changing sex. They are male. Every day. The clothing they wear doesn't change that. The name they choose doesn't change that. The pronoun they use doesn't change that. Wearing high heels doesn't make them a woman any more than wearing pointy furry ears makes them a cat. I once drank some ale made to a medieval recipe while eating cheese and wholemeal bread. It did not transport me through time. I remained in current time, eating a medieval meal. People at Star Trek conventions are not actually Vulcans, even if they wear pointy ears. It's only an accepted delusion when it comes to sex and only to promote the idea that sex=gender, which only serves to promote sexism. They can all go to hell.
 
Soldato
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Something I don't understand and I am probably missing something really obvious, is that how someone can look at another gender and say "I feel like I'm supposed to be that gender" or like Sam Smith says "I am neither of these". How do they know what another gender feels like to know they should be like that when they have been in their body their whole lives? I get it may be to do with how they grow up. Seeing boys plays with trains, girl with dolls type thing, but then that surely is learned behaviour and not innate in their minds and not "I have always been an X and was born into the wrong body".

Possibly going to get destroyed for this comment, but my question is genuine and not intended to be offensive in any way at all.

this is what i just dont get either.
What does it even mean - 'i feel like a man' or 'i feel like a woman'? What does that even mean???
 
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