Franco's tomb desecrated for political aggrandisement.

Man of Honour
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I know who Franco is. What he did. So it's nothing to do with being ignorant. And I still don't care that they're digging him up and moving him. And I'm not going to pretend to be offended on anyone's behalf about it. I don't care about Franco in the slightest. I have my own things to be dealing with in the hear and now and Spain has about as much influence in my hear and now as translucent beings from the depths of the Mariana trench.

Excellent, you don't care and guess what? I don't care either however there are posters in this thread saying "Who really cares?" well there are millions of Spaniards for a start who are still living who lost relatives because of him.

While we're at it, blow up the pyramids and remove 1000 years of slavery and early deaths, although to be fair, most tombs are already desecrated

It is well documented that the Pyramids were built by normal workers mainly farmers who couldn't work 6 months of the year because of the Nile flooding.
There may have been a few slaves here & there but not the old Hollywood flogging a 1000 slaves pulling a block image we have seen.
 
Caporegime
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Doesn't clearing away the bad parts of history just give everyone a picture of everything was always and always will be happy?

Franco was a bad man, but just because he was a bad he shouldn't be erased from history.

People need to remember what people like this did and how they corrupted and broke countries and the world. Hiding them away is just bringing about the not learning from the past idea.

Hitler isn't erased from history and his remains are scattered to the winds, this is a **** argument. It's far more likely that the authoritarians are the ones looking to erase history to suit their purist visions and stamp down dissent, this is about not having a shrine to worship someone's murderous ideology.

If we could get anywhere near Stalin or Mao's tombs, I'd incinerate them too.
 
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Soldato
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I don't know too much about Franco, I wonder why Chris loves him so much. Oh he's a totalitarian dictator, who enjoyed frequenting quaint English public houses (citation needed) and was propped up by nationalists, fascists and hardline Catholics. As you were.
 
Soldato
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I worked in Spain in 1979 and one of the most common questions was what did you think of Franco? He had died just a few years earlier. A tricky one for a foreigner as there were many Franco supporters and many who hated him. The country was going through a huge realignment then. Now I suspect most of his support has died literally so the authorities can do this.
Personally I hate revisionism, the past should remain as the past, a different world, people should create their own present which adds a layer to the past right or wrong.
 
Caporegime
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I worked in Spain in 1979 and one of the most common questions was what did you think of Franco? He had died just a few years earlier. A tricky one for a foreigner as there were many Franco supporters and many who hated him. The country was going through a huge realignment then. Now I suspect most of his support has died literally so the authorities can do this.
Personally I hate revisionism, the past should remain as the past, a different world, people should create their own present which adds a layer to the past right or wrong.

And nothing is erasing the vast swath of documentation of the era, it's about controlling the far-right association to the tomb.

I would have just incinerated his bones and be done with it, but clearly they're being exceptionally kind.
 
Permabanned
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This isn't about erasing him from history, just moving his remains from a national mausoleum, which has been a focal point for his far right supporters, like Chris ;) , to a private cemetery.


Mental gymnastics are abounding here, Chris has now gone from an ardent foreigner hater to a supporter of some dead Spaniard.... :) Nowhere in this thread have I made any insinuation as to my personal opinion of the late General, instead I have merely suggested even controversial corpses might perhaps be best left to rest in peace and not become a pawn of modern Socialism and Liberalism.
 
Soldato
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No one has desecrated Francos grave

They are being dug up and moved.

I find the whole Spain war very disturbing. I remember reading years ago how nuns bodies were being dug up and attacked.

It is a very sad place when a place of rest can't be left alone.

This is why we're heading for world war 3. Because people have lost a basic mutual respect. Not many people learned the lessons of the last two world wars. There is a lot of others, they, them, those idiots etc, going on. There seems to be a trend these days of going around attacking anyone, whether alive or dead. I was reading a story last week that a statue of ghandi is being protested against because he was racist, against black people. It's getting pathetic.
 
Caporegime
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They are being dug up and moved.

I find the whole Spain war very disturbing. I remember reading years ago how nuns bodies were being dug up and attacked.

It is a very sad place when a place of rest can't be left alone.

This is why we're heading for world war 3. Because people have lost a basic mutual respect. Not many people learned the lessons of the last two world wars. There is a lot of others, they, them, those idiots etc, going on. There seems to be a trend these days of going around attacking anyone, whether alive or dead. I was reading a story last week that a statue of ghandi is being protested against because he was racist, against black people. It's getting pathetic.

So you believe the USSR shouldn't have taken Hitler's body? Buried it in the middle of Austria or something?

The only thing that matters is how it affects the living, you know people who actually walk about trying to enjoy life and don't need some nutter who prays to his dictator hindering that, they can go to his smaller grave if they're still so inclined and the original tomb can be for the people he murdered.
 
Soldato
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No one has done what you said, he's being moved next to his wife, arguably a nice thing.

To be fair, I was more replying to the comment that because we don't like someone that they don't deserve basic respect.

When we hear crimes of a brutal nature, I'm usually calling for the death penalty to be brought back. But even if someone was hanged for an heinous crime, I still think they deserve a very basic respect.

So you believe the USSR shouldn't have taken Hitler's body?

No they shouldn't have. USSR was even worse than Nazi Germany in death count. I don't advocate for us to be handing over bodies to another maniac. We're the ones who stopped Nazi Germany. If any one should have taken control of his body it should have been us.

Yes, but desecrating implies some sort of violent disrespect. His body was exhumed and removed by family members and relaid in a private family cemetery next to his late wife.

That's hardly disrespecting his remains is it.

I was mainly replying to this comment;

Imagine thinking that a mass murderer deserves any sort of respect in 2019.

It implied that if we don't like someone they we don't have to give them any basic respect. I can't imagine @iamtheoneneo respectfully removing the body. He seems to think it's ok disrespecting dead bodies.
 
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