How is the Intelligent Voter Supposed to Choose a Political Party?

[R.P.L]

It's just the way it has to be in democracy, due to people being generally pretty stupid. Democracy tends to stop anything too terrible happening (although not always), but it also means that they'll never be all that great either. After all, it's not only politicians who are often corrupt and inept - it occurs in all walks of life but of course politicians are an easy and obvious target.

Long story short, they're drawn from a pool of mediocrity and voted for by that same pool, so no surprise what the outcome is.

 

[azazl187]

Honestly, this is a question that I have wrestled with my entire adult life.

Each party is terrible: populated by odious and ill-equipped people that are involved in awful scandals on a weekly basis. Each party has been in power in some form or another in recent decades and during that time they have broken promises time and time again. None are trustworthy.

And yet most people seem to be loudly, vitriolically confident in their choice of political party and so scathing of the opposition. I find it amazing that Tory voters don't seem to see the crushing litany of failings and corruption that their party offers up daily. Also, I find it amazing that Labour voters don't seem to see the crushing litany of failings and corruption that their party offers up daily.

So, as someone who sees that they are all equally rubbish, am I wrong? Am I missing something crucial?

Easy. Dont vote for any or vote for the least worst if you feel you have to vote.

 

[mmj_uk]

Until politicians start keeping their manifesto promises and are held accountable for not doing so it's a waste of time voting, one thing that Brexit has shown is that so many politicians are so lacking in beliefs/principles that they're more than happy to move between ideologically opposed parties like it's a game of musical chairs, the only principle they have is offloading the work of government to EU beaurocrats and keeping the gravy train going. Politicians who ran on a pro-Brexit, or a respecting Democracy promise just 3 years ago are now doing everything they can to damage democracy and stop Brexit at all costs. The state of British politics is quite simply a disgrace and the idea of multiple parties conspiring to effectively "fix" elections by not running against one another should disgust any true democrat.

 

[builder22]

don't vote then you won't feel bad, probably

that's my method anyway

 

[Siliconslave]

And yet most people seem to be loudly, vitriolically confident in their choice of political party and so scathing of the opposition. I find it amazing that Tory voters don't seem to see the crushing litany of failings and corruption that their party offers up daily. Also, I find it amazing that Labour voters don't seem to see the crushing litany of failings and corruption that their party offers up daily.

totally agree, and to perfectly drive your point home:

1 - could you morally vote for Labour knowing you'd appoint a disrespectful terrorist as PM?

2 - could you vote for Lib Dems knowing they want to stop Brexit knowing this would destroy every semblance of democracy we're proud of.

It feel like were hitting rock bottom, self serving or frankly useless politicians playing to the fringes while slinging as much mud as possible in all directions. Trumps call to 'drain the swamp' was totally on point - shame he only wanted to do it to build a golf course and line his own pockets

 

[chroniclard]

You vote for who you think will do the best job for the country. Unfortunatly with Boris throwing a strop and refusing scrutiny of his deal he has practically reduced it to a single issue. Due to knowing he would lose a second ref his only option to pass the surrender deal is a GE.

 

[StevieP]

Always makes me laugh when people say you should always vote, that if you don't vote you can't complain how bad things are. They don't seem to understand that voting is about choice, and not voting is a choice as well.

I'm under no illusions that I "have no right to complain" if I didn't partake in the process - but my vote literally doesn't make any difference!

Don't misunderstand me, I know the argument that "if everyone thought like that blah, blah, blah...." but my voting or not is never going to make any difference to the outcome - I'm not outside banging a drum telling people not to vote, I'm just quietly not voting myself....and the day a particular candidate or party loses by a solitary vote, I might feel a little twinge of guilt - but until that day....

 

[Puzzled]

At least the bbc is calling out some of the lies this time round, been quite enjoyable watching tory figures being ripped to shreds on politics live.

Labour have been caught as well but they are just pulling figures out of the air as they have no idea what nationalisation would truly cost.

If the lib dems changed their stance to second referendum rather than revoke I reckon they'd get a lot more votes with them being closest to the centre ground but this general election seems more polarised than ever.

 

[NVP]

They don't seem to understand that voting is about choice, and not voting is a choice as well.

Yes, you are choosing not to participate so we've no reason to hold any opinion you have on the matter with any weight.


The whole no vote thing is very childish and short sighted.

You don't like the politician or the party because of corruption, mistrust or selfishness etc. however these are general traits, along with many positives, of extremes and it will be those extremes who rise to the tops of any field meaning it doesn't matter what power puff girl imaginary party you're waiting for to sweep you off your feet because they are all populated with these types of people. They're all the same at the end of the day, so put your vote to use and vote for the manifesto, not the individual.

Small change is good change.

 

[FoxEye]

I strongly believe ditching FPTP will lead to a general improvement across the board in our politics.

The second thing we could use is some form of penalty for politicians caught lying. Lying should not be acceptable.

 

[Angilion]

Honestly, this is a question that I have wrestled with my entire adult life.

Each party is terrible: populated by odious and ill-equipped people that are involved in awful scandals on a weekly basis. Each party has been in power in some form or another in recent decades and during that time they have broken promises time and time again. None are trustworthy.

And yet most people seem to be loudly, vitriolically confident in their choice of political party and so scathing of the opposition. I find it amazing that Tory voters don't seem to see the crushing litany of failings and corruption that their party offers up daily. Also, I find it amazing that Labour voters don't seem to see the crushing litany of failings and corruption that their party offers up daily.

So, as someone who sees that they are all equally rubbish, am I wrong? Am I missing something crucial?

No, you're not wrong and you're not missing anything crucial. Voting is like choosing which animal is going to crap in your shoes. All the choices are bad. All you can do is try to work out which is probably going to be the least bad. Here and now, I think the answer is that every choice is a steaming shoeful of stinking diarrhoea. I can't recall a worse choice, ever.

Yes and no. No you're not missing that the parties are awful. Yes you are missing that you vote for a person and not a party.

I disagree. The political system in the UK is so party-based that you are effectively voting for a party. The person you vote for will rarely get a free vote on anything - they will usually be told how to vote by the party that rules them.

 

[AHarvey]

Yes, you are choosing not to participate so we've no reason to hold any opinion you have on the matter with any weight.


The whole no vote thing is very childish and short sighted.

You don't like the politician or the party because of corruption, mistrust or selfishness etc. however these are general traits, along with many positives, of extremes and it will be those extremes who rise to the tops of any field meaning it doesn't matter what power puff girl imaginary party you're waiting for to sweep you off your feet because they are all populated with these types of people. They're all the same at the end of the day, so put your vote to use and vote for the manifesto, not the individual.

Small change is good change.

This is exactly what I mean. Choosing not to vote is the same as choosing to go in and ruin your ballot, or choosing Labour, or choosing Conservative.

It makes no difference to me what someone chooses to do with their vote. If they chose not to vote then they can, it's not childish. If they've done the research and decided they can't choose one over the other then that's fine.

By all means get your knickers in a knot over people that can't be arsed to vote, forget their c vote or just don't give a damn, but making an educated choice not to vote is as equal to choosing one party over another.

I know people who chose not to vote who could tell you a lot more about each parties manifesto than the die hard Conservative voter who voted that way because they always have or because their parents do.

 

[NVP]

making an educated choice not to vote is as equal to choosing one party over another.

I know people who chose not to vote who could tell you a lot more about each parties manifesto

Ok please tell me this, what is the common theme regarding each parties manifesto which majorly contributes to you/your acquaintances decision to not vote for any?


You only want to vote for the perfect party, otherwise you just give up and moan, hey? News flash: you'll be moaning your whole life...

Reread the post of mine that you quoted and hopefully you'll understand that what you wish for is unrealistic, ignorant and quite simply a form of arrogance.

 

[Nitefly]

Indeed OP, it is horrible.

I think this time around it boils down to morals as opposed to political beliefs/you've read each parties' manifestos.

For me this time, 2 things stick out:

1 - could you morally vote for Labour knowing you'd appoint a disrespectful terrorist as PM?

2 - could you vote for Lib Dems knowing they want to stop Brexit knowing this would destroy every semblance of democracy we're proud of.

At the moment I think Lib Dem’s are probably my pick, faced with such absurd choices. I also think straight up revoking (without a 2nd referendum) doesn’t sit well with me, even though revoking is is obviously the right thing, IMO. But I really, really do not understand the whole ‘Lib dems are anti democratic’. You do realise they haven’t been elected yet? And that by being elected, they would have been democratically elected?

Of course, proportional representation is the way forward. End this ridiculous ‘polarisation’ and stop tactical voting. Hung parliament every time but at least then people would have to compromise to get anywhere.

 

[233]

None of them are fit to govern

Both parties need new strong leaders and complete shakeups from top to bottom. I really think the conservatives missed a trick not getting Ruth Davidson into a safe Westminster seat and now they've lost her

Labour who knows a reality check on what is actually feasible would be a good start it's like listening to a school debating team about what they would theoretically offer if given unlimited options and funding none of the current front benches on either side are fit to run a bath let alone a country dare I say it the only politician who comes across as genuinely honest in approach planning and sticking to their guns and actually willing to stay the course on what they promise is Farage and he's not standing

Military dictatorship never looked so appealing

 

[233]

None of them are fit to govern

Both parties need new strong leaders and complete shakeups from top to bottom. I really think the conservatives missed a trick not getting Ruth Davidson into a safe Westminster seat and now they've lost her

Labour who knows a reality check on what is actually feasible would be a good start it's like listening to a school debating team about what they would theoretically offer if given unlimited options and funding none of the current front benches on either side are fit to run a bath let alone a country dare I say it the only politician who comes across as genuinely honest in approach planning and sticking to their guns and actually willing to stay the course on what they promise is Farage and he's not standing

Military dictatorship never looked so appealing

 

[ianh]

There is no Party which represents me as a centrist. There's some "right wing" things I agree with (Crime & punishment, Immigration) with and some "left wing" stuff I agree with (Gay rights, Social welfare), yet the parties are very decidedly one side or the other. So I have to make my decision to vote based on voting Against a party rather than For a different one, all based on who I believe will do less damage to the country rather than who truly/best represents me.

It's garbage but that the current situation we're in!

 

[nightwish]

I voted Tory last time as I believe in fiscal responsibility, despite the consequences. But Bexit blows that out of the water anyway. Tory party is a mess and I don't trust BJ. Labour party is a mess and I don't trust JC. My thought on Nigel Farage are largely unprintable. So not so many options left. Lib Dems for me, with some reservations. They're not perfect, but who else is there? Maybe if there's a decent independant I could vote for them.

PS. LibDems revoking Article 50 is not anti-democratic, if you know what democracy really means. Winning a GE (which they'd have to do to revoke A50) is far stronger democracy than any advisory referendum.

 

[Thecaferacer]

I can understand the apathy towards voting but there are several key constituencies where every vote does count. Sandy Martin won Ipswich is 2017 with only 830 votes.

To be honest this has been the clearest choice in an election for years. Want to overturn Brexit - vote liberal. Want Brexit implemented - vote conservative.

As a political observer this year will be fascinating, Labour I think are finished as the 2nd party. My Facebook has been flooded by people posting pro-Labour posts that are all about how the Tories are evil Nazis, money will be taken from the rich en-masse and the reign of the old white man is over. It turns off centrist voters.

 

[Maccy]

We have this kind of talk going on in Speakers Corner, why ruin a Friday morning in GD? Hmph.

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/t...-2019-voting-intention-nov-1st-14th.18869351/