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That's a beautiful car, well chuffed for you old mate! 
A return to form: Say hello to Banana MK2, the Italian Prancing Horse (Ferrari 458 Italia)
That's a beautiful car, well chuffed for you old mate!
Hey mate long time no speak!
Still in Alsager and still got the CSL?
Hi there
Is the worse or most criticised recent Ferrari potentially going to be one of the best considering they are now approaching 50k for low spec high mileage examples:
For me I prefer the drive of a California to say a California T or Portofino, yes its the slowest, but this review really makes one point so clear, it is not about numbers, it is about how a car makes you feel and end of the day this is a true Ferrari, it has glorious sound and is proper drop top fun and fun you can enjoy because its not stupidly fast so you can stretch its legs and enjoy that performance somewhat.
Having driven a Portofino over a couple of days, yes epic fast but in the end I was not walking away buzzing and a lot of that was simply because there was no real noise to it, the turbo muffled it and accelerating for like 2s would see the car beyond the speed limit due to big power and big torque. The first twenty minutes of driving its like wow, epic so fast, then once that has worn off your then like the performance is too easy to access and to stay within legal limits or there about you can't enjoy it so much, as a cruiser the Portofino is amazing and the power delivery is instant in auto. But once that initial performance hit passes you start to realise to truly enjoy it, truly open it up you need a track and even then you don't feel it is you doing the work and you just can't get that noise. The slower Cali makes epic noise all time and you can lean on its performance a lot more and thus making it enjoyable at lower speeds. Very similar to 458 vs 488 case, the slower car is more fun on the road and far more pleasing to the ears.
I'd say my only complaint of the California is it looks, I do not think they look the best though certain colour combo's work well, but a nice spec car with carbon wheel and maybe later version with more power and handling pack as per review are a very fun car to drive and well a Ferrari that is fun to drive but can also be daily driven without getting annoying.
I feel these will become a popular used buy now they are mow accessible, yep I am sure there is potential of big bills but they are known to be reliable.
Is the worse or most criticised recent Ferrari potentially going to be one of the best considering they are now approaching 50k for low spec high mileage examples:
For me I prefer the drive of a California to say a California T or Portofino, yes its the slowest, but this review really makes one point so clear, it is not about numbers, it is about how a car makes you feel and end of the day this is a true Ferrari, it has glorious sound and is proper drop top fun and fun you can enjoy because its not stupidly fast so you can stretch its legs and enjoy that performance somewhat.
Having driven a Portofino over a couple of days, yes epic fast but in the end I was not walking away buzzing and a lot of that was simply because there was no real noise to it, the turbo muffled it and accelerating for like 2s would see the car beyond the speed limit due to big power and big torque. The first twenty minutes of driving its like wow, epic so fast, then once that has worn off your then like the performance is too easy to access and to stay within legal limits or there about you can't enjoy it so much, as a cruiser the Portofino is amazing and the power delivery is instant in auto. But once that initial performance hit passes you start to realise to truly enjoy it, truly open it up you need a track and even then you don't feel it is you doing the work and you just can't get that noise. The slower Cali makes epic noise all time and you can lean on its performance a lot more and thus making it enjoyable at lower speeds. Very similar to 458 vs 488 case, the slower car is more fun on the road and far more pleasing to the ears.
I'd say my only complaint of the California is it looks, I do not think they look the best though certain colour combo's work well, but a nice spec car with carbon wheel and maybe later version with more power and handling pack as per review are a very fun car to drive and well a Ferrari that is fun to drive but can also be daily driven without getting annoying.
I feel these will become a popular used buy now they are mow accessible, yep I am sure there is potential of big bills but they are known to be reliable.
F430 Scud was the last Ferrari to use single clutch I believe, but out of all single clutch systems Ferrari did it best, then I'd say BMW was second best with SMG2/3 but as with all single clutches robotised manuals some people like them and others simply do not like them.
Calfornia is the 7 speed DCT system as found in 458 and other cars around that era, a truly fantastic box that in the 458 is extremely aggressive in the earlier cars and in later cars still aggressive but smooth to protect the box. The California is more relaxed and thus about same speed on upshifts as the 458 in sport mode and a bit slower on downshifts, it is just more relaxed in that car to suit its target market and thus also more reliable (less stressed) and in the Cali it is also coded to act more like an automatic but is still very much a DCT.
P.S. Yes Calfi's look better in darker colours like this one which also has the LED carbon wheel:
https://www.pistonheads.com/classif...fdguxbuxAjygP4WK1YpK221HAli7JrMByCAuvecdhKg00
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Wasn't the F1 in the F430 as per the 360 and 355 and renowned for burning through clutches in no time? Not sure if the scud got something a little more special?
I'm contemplating chopping my Noble in and throwing some money on top for something else at the moment and from everything I've read the F1 boxed Ferrari's are a massive no go. Shortlist is mainly Manual 360, Manual Gallardo and Mclaren 12c's which have amazingly dropped below £70k now (I live 10 miles from Thorney Motorsport which helps on that option...)
Yes same box in all of them, but if you drive a 360, then challenge, then 430 and 430 Scud they kept on improving it and the Scud was the last evolution of that box and made it as best as it could be. But yes Gallardo's absolutely burn their clutch up in reverse and none sport mode, as with all the single clutch robotised manuals to get best clutch life the best procedure was to drive the cars in their sportiest settings and drive them hard because the only way they shift smoother is by slipping the clutch and thus wearing it more and was something Lamborghini suffered with most, Ferrari on 360/430 was not great and BMW were best with longevity.
If you can get yourself into a manual Ferrari or Lamborghini, DO IT, the boat has already sailed somewhat and prices rocketed but if you find the right car and a price your happy to pay its probably a safe place to put your money, also consider the Audi R8 V10 manual too, great car, great drive and rather reliable and can be had for circa 50k so 20k aside for running and repairs.
Mclaren of that era does nothing for me, drive one and decide for yourself but the sound is just poor compared to NA rivals of period and they are not the most playful handling wise according to some people I know who have owned them, but they are epic fast and you do indeed need a very good specialist for a Mclaren so your sorted their but my adice would be avoid a 12C at all cost or wait until they are 50k or even better wait for a 570S at around 70-75k as the 570S is a far superior car and also a lot more fun to drive and handles more naturally.
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Thats fair enough. Makes sense that they'd continue to evolve as they refine them, just a case of everything I've read tallying with a friends parents comment of struggling to pull off up a medium incline drive without a clutch smell pouring into the cabin.
My view is the 360 or Gallardo manual would be a pretty decent investment also over the auto, although they command a premium it would hold it in future. R8 V10 manual is on the shortlist also but arguably not as special (albeit probably more capable & modern than the others - likewise as you say get a better example for the money). There was a nice looking 360 Manual Spider up for sale recently for £49k (along with a vague description of needing some cosmetic tidying up) but that literally got listed Saturday and has gone now. Do like the black one up for £65k currently with the sports seats.
Mclaren 12c was a little curveball as I realised how much they've depreciated. Honestly don't think they'll go down much further but likewise as you say the sound is uninspiring and arguably it may well be too capable to enjoy on the road at legal speeds etc.
In all honesty once my old daily S3 sells (replaced with a Clio 182 for station run) I'll start going to view and try to test drive a few of the options, Noble isn't exactly a bad car to use in the interim so can wait for the right car - likewise though a question of how quickly the noble will sell on or if a dealer with a car I like would be interested in it in partex.
Edit: Lovely looking car but somewhat worrying the advert has been up since this time in 2018! https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201802093587401 Cap retail value of £62-63k and cap clean at £55k iirc so not that far off book really
Test drive all of them. I was nearly set on a F430, but after taking a Gallardo out after an F430 back to back, the noise of the G (pre LP obviously as LP's sound horrible in comparison!) won it for me.
Wanted a manual also, but the premiums for good manual cars are eye watering, and to be honest I cant grumble at the e-gear as long as its driven right but it needs to be driven hard.
At your budget a manual Ferrari is a very good bet or wait and save for a 570S at around 75k, keep an eye on FB groups also, much better deals on cars there I find, join supercar selling groups etc. Perfect example was a 570S Spyder, think it sold for 92k and was on like 5000 miles.
That car you linked to I think it may be hanging around due to specification and miles, a lot of Ferrari buyers are very keen on certain spec and colour combo and for whatever reason Ferrari's over 30k miles are hard to shift, people are still in the 1970's when it comes to Ferrari reliability, whereas they generally tend to be very reliable since the 360 and reliability only improved with each generation. A car like California kind of proves this as people don't seem scared to use them or are either simply not clocking them back as there is a few examples for sale with around 80,000 miles and it uses an evolution of the 430 engine with DFI technology.
The cars that seem to move are of course red, black or typically yellow or a silver/grey variation. Interior colour, cream or beige in a none red or grey car seems to put a lot of potential buyers off, if your going to keep it for years forget values, buy the car you want and enjoy it.
That California looks fantastic even of it's not the usual ferrari Red.
Between that and a r8 v10 for me at that Money.
I would probably go for the California the shape / curves it looks fantastic, it's all about the smiles than top top performance.
Yes agreed, I’m going to see if Ferrari will lend me a California in April to May time when 458 goes for its service.
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Had been meaning to re-read your lambo thread to be fair to get a flavour of it (and remind myself of your exhausts noise
)I have actually driven a 360 and a Gallardo but it was a long time ago on a pretty awful airfield experience day with hammering rain. I did prefer the Gallardo then from memory but the 360 had nearly no grip probably from crap tyres and slippery track etc.
The other argument is that a v10 manual R8 would leave enough in the pot to go on a continental roadtrip as well as purchasing the car
At your budget a manual Ferrari is a very good bet or wait and save for a 570S at around 75k, keep an eye on FB groups also, much better deals on cars there I find, join supercar selling groups etc. Perfect example was a 570S Spyder, think it sold for 92k and was on like 5000 miles.
That car you linked to I think it may be hanging around due to specification and miles, a lot of Ferrari buyers are very keen on certain spec and colour combo and for whatever reason Ferrari's over 30k miles are hard to shift, people are still in the 1970's when it comes to Ferrari reliability, whereas they generally tend to be very reliable since the 360 and reliability only improved with each generation. A car like California kind of proves this as people don't seem scared to use them or are either simply not clocking them back as there is a few examples for sale with around 80,000 miles and it uses an evolution of the 430 engine with DFI technology.
The cars that seem to move are of course red, black or typically yellow or a silver/grey variation. Interior colour, cream or beige in a none red or grey car seems to put a lot of potential buyers off, if your going to keep it for years forget values, buy the car you want and enjoy it.
Yeah I keep an eye on a couple of the Supercar selling groups, have seen you pop up on there occasionally actually. I'm not really put off by mileage but conscious when it comes to any potential resale time the mileage does come into it. Likewise on the colour I really want red, black or yellow but fully appreciate red will be the easier colour to move on in the future. Honestly won't personally consider the pale silver ones as whilst they look good the colour just blends in too much to normality
I need to book a day off work really to have a drive around various dealers and decide what the end goal actually is. Are test drives relatively easy to sort in your guys experiences? When I was viewing interesting stuff at the £20k mark 5-6 years ago I really struggled as a lot of dealers refused test drives without deposits - I literally walked away from an ideal manual 996T because the dealer wouldn't let me test drive without putting a £500 deposit into their account despite showing them I had more than the asking price sat in my bank account.
Negotiation wise I imagine the sticker price isn't what most of these cars actually sell at? I've got full access to Cap which helps with that side of it to be fair
Are test drives relatively easy to sort in your guys experiences? When I was viewing interesting stuff at the £20k mark 5-6 years ago I really struggled as a lot of dealers refused test drives without deposits - I literally walked away from an ideal manual 996T because the dealer wouldn't let me test drive without putting a £500 deposit into their account despite showing them I had more than the asking price sat in my bank account.
Negotiation wise I imagine the sticker price isn't what most of these cars actually sell at? I've got full access to Cap which helps with that side of it to be fair
Varies massively in my experience. Porsche were surprisingly amazing, I drove a 981S, 991.1S & a 991.1 4S all in one day back to back. Audi let me in an R8 no problem (but the salesman was an idiot). Alfa wouldn't let me in a 4C full stop 'It's basically a track car mate'. Needless to say i went elsewhere!
I would phone ahead and be ready to spout off as much about the car as you can, where you are in the 'buying journey' (make this up if you want) but just show some prior knowledge so they know you're serious not just there to waste some time.
Had been meaning to re-read your lambo thread to be fair to get a flavour of it (and remind myself of your exhausts noise
I have actually driven a 360 and a Gallardo but it was a long time ago on a pretty awful airfield experience day with hammering rain. I did prefer the Gallardo then from memory but the 360 had nearly no grip probably from crap tyres and slippery track etc.
The other argument is that a v10 manual R8 would leave enough in the pot to go on a continental roadtrip as well as purchasing the car
Yeah I keep an eye on a couple of the Supercar selling groups, have seen you pop up on there occasionally actually. I'm not really put off by mileage but conscious when it comes to any potential resale time the mileage does come into it. Likewise on the colour I really want red, black or yellow but fully appreciate red will be the easier colour to move on in the future. Honestly won't personally consider the pale silver ones as whilst they look good the colour just blends in too much to normality
I need to book a day off work really to have a drive around various dealers and decide what the end goal actually is. Are test drives relatively easy to sort in your guys experiences? When I was viewing interesting stuff at the £20k mark 5-6 years ago I really struggled as a lot of dealers refused test drives without deposits - I literally walked away from an ideal manual 996T because the dealer wouldn't let me test drive without putting a £500 deposit into their account despite showing them I had more than the asking price sat in my bank account.
Negotiation wise I imagine the sticker price isn't what most of these cars actually sell at? I've got full access to Cap which helps with that side of it to be fair
I have never had issue with test drives really. I think the only issue I ever recall was Audi, me and my mate went in their car shopping for him, guy is a millionaire and when looking at Audi R8 V10's the sales guy seemed to think we were rebel scum and suggested we should be looking at Audi TT's or RS3's and not their 120k car, needless to say we left and my mate put a letter of complaint in along the lines he could buy most the stock they had in their dealership, they were apologetic but in the end they killed his interest in the car.
Apart from that Lamborghini, Porsche and Ferrari seemed more than welcoming and eager to put me into cars for test drives. When I was Porsche hunting Wilmslow let me take out several cars and then they said one of our race instructors is here if you want to go out with him in a C2S and C4S to see differences, of course I said yes and he had going extremely fast and explaining the behaviour differences between the cars. Though I did not buy a car from them I did buy an OPC 2yr warranty and I did use them for all my servicing, they were fantastic.
Lamborghini were more than happy to let me drive Huracan, Performante and Uris, the guy was pretty nuts but was extremely accommodating and it made the weekend great fun, and the coffee is fantastic. He even started up the SVJ they had in the showroom and proceeded to rev it in the show room, lets just say is colleagues were not best please but us as potential customers were buzzing. I turned up in a Skoda Yeti so I doubt it had anything to do with car.
Ferrari both Wilmslow and Swindon were also just as accommodating with test drives, basically I like the look of this, OK sir lets take it out. I did go in F-Type and they new it was a P/X potentially so maybe it helped but I genuinely think the supercar dealerships do not get as much interest as like say a Ford dealership so they are far more welcoming to test drives, I guess if your 18 they might ask questions but if your 25+, even better 30+ I think they will be very accommodating.
The only disappointment was Mclaren Manchester/Wilmslow they would not let me test drive the 570S I was interested in buying on the basis it was a used pre-owned car and they did not want the hassle of getting it out, so I asked to drive a demonstrator and they did not have one, luckily I was able to access one via a friend of a friend, but needless to say Mclaren Wilmslow only really seemed interested in telling me how awesome they are but not actually letting me drive anything. So had a look around, sat in a few cars thought to myself 570S Spyder lots of down sides, but lots of positives so will maybe get in one of those one day. When Mclaren came to OcUK (engineers) they had no issues letting me sit and have a go in their 600LT test vehicle.
Ferrari Manchester/Wilmslow would not budge on the black 458 I was very keen on buying, it was missing some carbon interior stuff so I was after a discount but in the end they would only offer to retrofit fit carbon paddles for free (£1000 to buy), I wanted more and I knew they had the car for sale over six months but had noticed when they first got the car it had no carbon and Pzero tyres, whereas when I looked at it then it was on PS4S and had carbon centre console so they had already put some updates to make it more desirable, they'd also not do any lower than around 6.5% APR so they were simply not giving me the deal I wanted and their service / labour cost seemed very high, they wanted £760 to fit a set of spark plugs.
Dick Lovett Swindon went above and beyond, unlimited coffee and biscuits, even offers of lunch, I also got nearly £10,000 off the advertised price and they got the APR to low 5's and the same spark plug job they did for £270 and since owning the car their service and support has being excellent, highly recommend them.
The couple of specialist I test drove 458's at were a bit less accommodating mainly because the cars were mostly SOR, the cars also did not drive as well, maybe because of lack of PPI, as I know Dick Lovett spend around £75000 on PPI on my car, new pads all round, new sensors, full front-end respray and full gearbox and diff oil change. The specialist were also unwilling to move on price.
Lamborghini certainly seemed to be more accomodating on moving on price by the tune of upto around 10k too. Try your luck, I got very lucky with my car because the salesman was like I've literally had a guy trying to email and buy the car, but we told him first come first served, I thought it was a blagging attempt until he showed me the email he had received that morning and once I had it one of the other guys I spoke to when I took it in for a service said after you took that car we had 2-3 people trying to call and buy it, so my timing was strong, again I though maybe blagging until a few post on PH and one guy saying that I beat him to it. So I got very lucky to not only get it but to also bag a discount too. But the specification is bang on and if you like yellow then its a winner especially as its the £18k paint option and most potential buyers want the carbon buckets, forged wheels and carbon driver zones and carbon wheel, they tend to fetch a solid 20k more than say a car without. Not sure if I mentioned but they even tried to buy the car back off me just over a month ago because they had a customer after it and they offered me 139k cash before negotiating, which means they no doubt had a customer for it at around 150-160k.
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Talking of which Gibbo, whens your service/MOT due for our drive down
Talking of which Gibbo, whens your service/MOT due for our drive down
We are waiting for good weather this month so I can enjoy the 812 superfast more, don't want 800HP RWD in the wet.
So the dealership has agreed last minute booking based on weather.
Then I shall be back around April for service.
Yes, then aiming for a California at next service.
If it hammers it down they agree to let me have a quick go in 812 and will then give me a V12 Lusso with AWD.