Are german cars still considered premium?

Nasher

Nasher

Nasher

Soldato
Joined
22 Nov 2006
Posts
23,376
Simon said:
Or the oil is still fine after 2years
Click to expand...

But who do we believe on reliability. Lexus or VAG? :p

As above, the oil at the end of the year often looks very dirty. I wouldn't want to go a whole 2nd year with it (and also the same filter!)...

I also seem to remember BMW revising it back down to one year some time ago.
 

Robbo

Robbo

Robbo

Man of Honour
Joined
2 Jan 2009
Posts
60,272
Of course they are still premium, but they are not all built equal - obviously.

[TW]Fox said:
Behave. If that was true I'd not have bought one let alone two, as a decent interior is pretty much top of my list.
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree. I have driven all of the competitor cars from every brand, including those that cost significantly more, and the F10 holds its own easily against anything. It's one of the best cars of the modern era IMO.
 

jpaul

jpaul

jpaul

Soldato
Joined
1 Mar 2010
Posts
21,912
manic_man said:
This is also likely combined with the fact most German luxury spec vehicles are all running on hard suspension, with huge wheels and no flexibility in the tyre side wall as they are all run-flat. My current one is an M-Sport with 19" wheels and while it looks awesome (in my opinion) my next car will have smaller, floppier wheels, that's for absolutely sure. It's an estate car at the end of the day and, like most people, I live my life in traffic.

The current one is worse than my last 2012 f10 but I suspect that's more down to the change to a touring than anything else (plus the fact it was an SE spec so softer suspension and "only" 17" tyres). However a recent 3 week stint in a brand new G31 hasn't sold my that they have improved things. Can't comment on the other big German brands as I have no experience but I can tell you that this will be my last BMW for a while, I've had 3 in a row and this last one has really killed the brand for me both in terms of perceived quality and the dealer network.
Click to expand...

interesting summary .I have older se suspension, bigger sidewalls, and, based on reviews, remain sceptical of M-Sport suspension being hard/less-compliant, over long term ownership, which I might fail to forsee in a test drive
The G31 had the M suspension itself ? or the default (what google tells me) is, now, air suspension ?

I guess conventional+air dampers/springs on bm's are the same in france/germany despite their better roads.
 

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

Soldato
Joined
4 Aug 2007
Posts
21,427
Location
Wilds of suffolk
One of the issues is not every car is the same. My partner had a 1 series M sport whilst I had my 5 series.
As the person who looked after the fleet reported to me i got through a lot of cars (we typically had 3 or 4 manufacturers who would lend us cars, often the press ones after launches).
I drove the 1 series in normal and M sport, and the normal was a better drive by far. The 5 series I found the opposite, the standard suspension made me feel sick, it felt like sea sickness. Ok I had pretty much always had hard type suspension cars, but the standard 5 honestly gave me the same feelings as I had as a kid getting sick in the back of the old mans allegro! Stick on the sports suspension and it was much much nicer.

And I think this is the issue, comparing not just brands, but cars within a range.
There are cars you would say are premium in Toyota, but they are certainly cars far far from it. Some of the marques are basically all premium in target, Audi being one. The whole point of the brand is the premium market, so yeah they use better materials etc, but you do pay for it.
Ford aren't premium but they have premium trim, vignale

You would expect all executive cars to be premium, you wouldnt (nor would people buy) all superminis as premium.

And lets not start conflating engineering reliability with premium ;)
 

manic_man

manic_man

manic_man

Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
2,953
Location
Greater Manchester
jpaul said:
interesting summary .I have older se suspension, bigger sidewalls, and, based on reviews, remain sceptical of M-Sport suspension being hard/less-compliant, over long term ownership, which I might fail to forsee in a test drive
The G31 had the M suspension itself ? or the default (what google tells me) is, now, air suspension ?

I guess conventional+air dampers/springs on bm's are the same in france/germany despite their better roads.
Click to expand...

Both my current F11 and the G31 I used for just under 3 weeks both had the same default M-Sport set up. So stiffened, lower springs at the front, self-levelling air suspension at the back. Difference between them was the G31 had the standard 18" anthracite alloys (I forget the design alias) whereas my F11 has 19" with thinner sidewalls, both using run-flat of course.

In terms of ride "feel" I must admit to not noticing much except the G31 was far far lighter, at lower speeds at least. I was shocked when I got back into my F11 at the difference.

I should say, I don't find my crashy, just firm, it was more a general comment that the general trend of firmer/lowered suspension plus less sidewall plus run-flat might account for some perceived drop in quality. Maybe I've just spent too long in BMW's now and need to get away to appreciate how brilliant they are in comparison to the rest...
 

Psycho Sonny

Psycho Sonny

Psycho Sonny

Caporegime
Joined
21 Jun 2006
Posts
38,372
Know someone who has just passed their test and buying their first car. Mercedes A class. Someone at work just got one too and the roads are littered with them along with A1's.

Just how cheap are these to lease? I'd ideally want a petrol or hybrid with a decent engine 2 litre for the mrs if I was to replace her car or at least a 3 litre if to replace mine.
 

Kenai

Kenai

Kenai

Soldato
Joined
5 Apr 2009
Posts
24,858
Psycho Sonny said:
Just how cheap are these to lease? I'd ideally want a petrol or hybrid with a decent engine 2 litre for the mrs if I was to replace her car or at least a 3 litre if to replace mine.
Click to expand...

Carwow showing sub £200pm if you just want 'an A Class' which is what most people want.

Good luck finding a 3.0 one though, even the 415bhp A45S is a 2.0 :p
 

[TW]Fox

[TW]Fox

[TW]Fox

Man of Honour
Joined
17 Oct 2002
Posts
159,616
Psycho Sonny said:
Know someone who has just passed their test and buying their first car. Mercedes A class. Someone at work just got one too and the roads are littered with them along with A1's.

Just how cheap are these to lease? I'd ideally want a petrol or hybrid with a decent engine 2 litre for the mrs if I was to replace her car or at least a 3 litre if to replace mine.
Click to expand...

They don't do a 3 litre A class and they never have done. Biggest engine is a 2 litre.
 

ultralaser

ultralaser

ultralaser

Associate
Joined
7 Sep 2014
Posts
1,160
It depends on what you mean by "premium". Personally I associate that term with quality, something that I'll pay a premium price for in return for longevity, design that is above average and something that holds value better than the compeition.

If we look back twenty years and read the reliabtiliy rankings BMW was right up there, I remember when you bought a BMW because it would get you to work, it would be reliable and that was worth a higher price tag. It was a reliable and well designed 3 series or a a turd of a Ford Escort or a Vauxhall Cavalier. But today?

I honestly think that most of us look Japanese when seeking reliability, so that leaves us with driving dynamics and design. In truth on both of those today, the competition is so much closer, take cars like the new Focus or the Mazda 3, are you really getting a worse car than a 3 series??? I just don't think so anymore.

So personally, bar the ability to impress the neighbours, no I don't think they're premium,
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom