Permabanned
Lets see where this ends though. They may not stump up more cash now, but I bet that the EU will welcome all the needed immigration and migrants to its members. Guaranteed.
Syria war: 22 Turkish troops killed in airstrike
- Thread starter dowie
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Lets see where this ends though. They may not stump up more cash now, but I bet that the EU will welcome all the needed immigration and migrants to its members. Guaranteed.
Why would they, they can do so legally and without risking bringing in this mob.
Permabanned
Well underneath its just Islam. The superiority aspect, the radicalisation. Islams ideology runs deep. Regardless who took them in, who gave them their lives, they are Muslim first.
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I agree, they clearly can. But they have agenda that is larger than what the left want to believe. Lets see, They will not stand back when an opportunity to force more people on the members is presented. Never.
Soldato
No. After yesterday's discussion he flee back to Turkey.
You have to realise that EU 2020 is not the same EU 2015-6. After the last EU Parliament Elections, the Right has the keys to the EU fate. And across Europe this is the case if you see how one country after the next switches to the right, with big far right parties appearing out of nowhere. And would have shifted further to the right if Merkel didn't highjack the President of the commision canditates putting her own Defence Minister who wasn't on the list.
This is also why any agreement between EU & UK will be harder now than before May 2019 because the Right Wing EU Parliament won't concede easily.
Every country moves to the right. Sweden a great example. Even Finland this week. Where there is an ourcry when the PM & Internal Minister said that the Finnish border police send to Greece will assist the illegals to cross and help them seek asylum in Finland!!!!!
https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/...all_new_arrivals_asylum_applications/11245301
This is often quoted, but the last time I looked into it, I couldn't find anything in the 1951 UN refugee convention or it's updated 1967 protocol that states asylum seekers are only entitled to ask for asylum at the first [safe] country they land on. And I've read it again this morning and still can't see where that is the case. Have a look here
https://www.unhcr.org/uk/about-us/b...lating-status-refugees-its-1967-protocol.html
Full fact make the same point https://fullfact.org/immigration/refugees-first-safe-country/
Now, different countries can have their own caveats on the convention and the EU has the Dublin accord, which states
But then, because one of the rights is "The right to freedom of movement within the territory" even then, they can legally travel to the UK since the EU has FOM. And there are plenty of exceptions to the above caveat
So I guess, funnily enough, with us leaving the EU, they actually now have even more right to come through Europe to claim asylum in the UK
Soldato
So I guess, funnily enough, with us leaving the EU, they actually now have even more right to come through Europe to claim asylum in the UK
Soldato
Not really, this is the Byzantium mindset at play and strategically it is accurate.
But thing's have sorta changed over the last 1000 years and Turkey's deliberately belligerent actions make the strategic value of Turkey being in the European sphere negligible, if not wholly negative.
Soldato
Byzantium's diplomacy was based on divide and conquer tactics and religious/cultural dominance, not population injection. Byzantines were the envy of the world at that times, Turkey is far from it.
Basically TR and especially his leader believes that population size can do the trick in making their country peripheral power, they got no technology of their onw, no natural resources and sure as hell a bad reputation around the Mediterranean pond
Basically TR and especially his leader believes that population size can do the trick in making their country peripheral power, they got no technology of their onw, no natural resources and sure as hell a bad reputation around the Mediterranean pond
In practice, after exiting the EU, we're going to take a look at these "14yo going on 40" so-called "asylum seekers" (once they put down the AK and hide the black flag), and we're going to say, "Jog on, mate" and these "asylum seekers" (aka economic migrants from all over the world), can understand that the UK isn't the land of milk and honey where the go to make their fortune.So I guess, funnily enough, with us leaving the EU, they actually now have even more right to come through Europe to claim asylum in the UK
That might sound callous, but we all know how many of these people are chancers because the bleeding-heart BBC keeps interviewing them at the borders, and they keep saying (almost without fail), "We want to go to UK for a better life." Not "We're being persecuted in our home country." A very important distinction.
They want a better life and they keep being told (by the people smugglers et al) that the UK is ready to welcome them with open arms and they'll all be driving lambos after a couple years.
Soldato
So I guess, funnily enough, with us leaving the EU, they actually now have even more right to come through Europe to claim asylum in the UK
To qualify for FOM, a refugee must be processed within an EU country otherwise he/she is an illegal. Any means of legal entry into the UK is unlikely, air or sea crossing, without valid EU documentation. Therefore reliant on people smugglers and other unsavoury means. After December 2020, FOM effectively disappears and entry is dependant on specified criteria. One of which is asylum however it will be rigorously assessed I am sure.
Soldato
Heh. You are confused. @Freakbro is right at pointing on Dublin 2, as it guaranteed that on EU point of entry asylum seekers, couldn't claim asylum on 4-5th country they cross. And the 4-5th country had all the right to refuse and move them back to the country they initially entered EU and claimed asylum.
With UK out of the EU, Dublin 2 doesn't apply. So anyone and his dog can come to any UK point of entry (port, airport, train through tunner, with a boat) and claim asylum even if has asylum in the EU which helped him to cross through Europe.
Oh the irony
Heh. You are confused. @Freakbro is right at pointing on Dublin 2, as it guaranteed that on EU point of entry asylum seekers, couldn't claim asylum on 4-5th country they cross. And the 4-5th country had all the right to refuse and move them back to the country they initially entered EU and claimed asylum.
With UK out of the EU, Dublin 2 doesn't apply. So anyone and his dog can come to any UK point of entry (port, airport, train through tunner, with a boat) and claim asylum even if has asylum in the EU which helped him to cross through Europe.
Oh the irony
Freakbro's post outlined an example of someone claiming asylum in an EU country then using FOM to come to the UK, if FOM doesn't exist then they can't simply come to the UK (at least not legally).
Soldato
Heh. You are confused. @Freakbro is right at pointing on Dublin 2, as it guaranteed that on EU point of entry asylum seekers, couldn't claim asylum on 4-5th country they cross. And the 4-5th country had all the right to refuse and move them back to the country they initially entered EU and claimed asylum.
With UK out of the EU, Dublin 2 doesn't apply. So anyone and his dog can come to any UK point of entry (port, airport, train through tunner, with a boat) and claim asylum even if has asylum in the EU which helped him to cross through Europe.
Oh the irony
The UK has always been open to asylum claims from people entering the country through its air and seaports, no change there. What it will not have is FOM entry from the EU. If you are a foreign national trying to cross from Europe you need travel documents to enter the UK, BEFORE YOU CAN GET ON A BOAT OR PLANE. Then there are the Illegals, again same as before.
Yeah... that'll work with Northern Ireland, sure won't be a trafficking route for that sort of thing, no sir, impossible.
You guys seem confused, i'm answering the incorrect and oft quoted statement that "Asylum seekers are only entitled to ask for asylum at the first country they land on". This doesn't apply whilst in the EU and it won't apply when out either. My point was, when out, we will have even less recourse to remove asylum seekers than we do currently.
As for @nkata getting hung up upon their method of entry, again you should brush up on the actual convention
As for @nkata getting hung up upon their method of entry, again you should brush up on the actual convention
Soldato
@Freakbro All I am refuting is that the UK is in a worse position on leaving the EU. We are not.
@StriderX neither UK nor ROI are in schengen area. Legal travel documents are required for entry. Dublin won't allow a people smuggling route to cross it's territory. Nor will UK. Whenever I travel to NI I need photo ID at least.
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I think we should look at the reality, what is enforceable, and what actually happens. It would seem the convention isn't worth the paper it's written on, tbh. People entering countries illegally do often find themselves detained (aka punished), and eventually deported. Which country recently threatened jail terms for illegals entering?
Many people in the UK will be very, very upset with any UK govt that does not take decisive action against illegals flooding into the country.
And only genuine asylum seekers should be allowed to stay, not any old economic migrant ala 2014.
Some people here seem to be thrilled by the prospect of economic migrants pouring in unchecked. Are you Tony Blair in disguise? I think you'll find a lot, perhaps most, are against it.
Just look at Greece. They are repelling attacks on their borders right now. You say that shouldn't happen under the convention, because some of those attempting to break down the border could be asylum seekers... Well let's face it the Greek border police do not care, they are repelling all of them. So much for the convention, eh?
Soldato
To anyone wanting from Greece to open it's border, why you do not protest outside parliament and to your MP to send aiplanes and take them to England directly? As you are there, make petition for UK to take back in the likes of Samima Begum which the country removed the only nationality they had. (there are few hundrends).
The Greek borders will remain closed forever, not because Greece says so but because the significant majority of the 22 EU countries say so. Making a pariah any gorvernment who disagrees openly (Denmark, Finland) or remains silent (Germany, Netherlands, Sweden). These 5 governments are facing serious political upheaval these days, some even votes of no confidence (Finland) or demands for resignation (Germany).
The Greek borders will remain closed forever, not because Greece says so but because the significant majority of the 22 EU countries say so. Making a pariah any gorvernment who disagrees openly (Denmark, Finland) or remains silent (Germany, Netherlands, Sweden). These 5 governments are facing serious political upheaval these days, some even votes of no confidence (Finland) or demands for resignation (Germany).