Upgading CPUs... after a certain point there is no point!

[yannis76]

Hi all,

lately I have been looking into upgrading my i5-8400 for some gaming at 1440p where I was noticing some struggling (RTX 2070 S) and Lightroom/Photoshop. I checked many reviews of both Ryzen and i7-9700k/8700k CPU and honestly I have a hard time justifying the upgrade.
In every comparison I read between the humble i5-8400 and other much more expensive CPUs, there were small differences and only at specialized cases.
- so at 1440p almost all games didn't show a difference of more than 5-10fps
- at lower resolutions difference was higher but both CPU were performing good (>60fps)
- at apps the only big difference was at severely multi threaded apps like video rendering which is rather specialized. Even Photoshop didn't show such a high difference while exporting...

What am I missing here? Is it my wrong impression or the high end CPUs are just a marketing plot with no actual needs to cover?

 

[bremen1874]

There are plenty of non-gaming uses for computers where having many cores/threads is beneficial.

You've got a relatively modern 6 core processor. You wouldn't expect to be seeing massive gains unless you're doing something that'd benefit from having additional cores.

 

[Tetras]

They have more cores, but the fundamental architecture is pretty much the same. The 8700K gives you more clock speeds and 6 threads, so I wouldn't expect much. The 9700 has 2 more cores, but they're the same ones you've got and not often used to their potential. Ryzen 3000 has caught up to Coffee in games, but it hasn't made massive strides yet. You'd need to wait until at least the next generation for Ryzen, probably two, even three for Intel since they do love a good rebrand.

Haven't looked into it much, but Adobe stuff seems pretty clock speed reliant for many tasks, though it does depend what you're doing.

 

[MartinPrince]

...What am I missing here? Is it my wrong impression or the high end CPUs are just a marketing plot with no actual needs to cover?

As @bremen1874 stated you really have to gauge exactly what your usage is and how much difference it will make to you.

If you want to compare a real world photo app that I use daily that can leverage ~8 cores/threads then you can try download the trial of DXO Photolab 3 and try this test here.
https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/33217767

I would guess that my 9700K maybe nearly twice as fast as your 8400. Also as you mentioned Photoshop/Lightroom why not try the Photoshop and Lightroom PugetSystems bench. That will give you some real-world figures to compare against. I have also run these.

Photoshop
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/PugetBench-for-Photoshop-1132/

Lightroom
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/PugetBench-for-Lightroom-Classic-1571/

 

[yannis76]

As @bremen1874 stated you really have to gauge exactly what your usage is and how much difference it will make to you.

If you want to compare a real world photo app that I use daily that can leverage ~8 cores/threads then you can try download the trial of DXO Photolab 3 and try this test here.
https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/33217767

I would guess that my 9700K maybe nearly twice as fast as your 8400. Also as you mentioned Photoshop/Lightroom why not try the Photoshop and Lightroom PugetSystems bench. That will give you some real-world figures to compare against. I have also run these.

Photoshop
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/PugetBench-for-Photoshop-1132/

Lightroom
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/PugetBench-for-Lightroom-Classic-1571/

DXO is unfortunately not compatible with Fuji RAF (RAW) files.
Thanks for the heads up re Puget. I didn't know they had their benchmarks available for download.

 

[MartinPrince]

DXO is unfortunately not compatible with Fuji RAF (RAW) files.
Thanks for the heads up re Puget. I didn't know they had their benchmarks available for download.

Yes, I know due to X-trans. Shame really as Fuji do some great cameras. Still run the DXO test please with my RAW file and preset in the link, I'm curious to see how well long your 8400 takes. Link to trial version.
https://www.dxo.com/dxo-photolab/download/

If you do the Photoshop and Lightroom tests then post back. The Photoshop test takes about ~25min-35min and the Lightroom one is longer.

 

[Grim5]

You don't need a good CPU at 1440p until you bottleneck your GPU. Unlock the framerate in your games, is your gpu running at 100% load? If not you may need. Better CPU

 

[Aretak]

What am I missing here? Is it my wrong impression or the high end CPUs are just a marketing plot with no actual needs to cover?

It really depends on your specific needs. You're correct in saying that there's not much point in having more than a mid-range chip for gaming in the vast majority of cases. Hell, thanks to the R5 1600 AF, you can have an extremely capable chip for under £100, with the 3600 available for well under £200 for those looking for a bit more performance. Unless you're planning to use a 2080 Ti at 1080p to drive a 240Hz monitor, or some other similar edge case setup, there's not much argument for paying more than that right now purely for gaming. The gains are tiny even if you spend two or three times as much (or more).

 

[Participant]

Hell, thanks to the R5 1600 AF, you can have an extremely capable chip for under £100

I was looking into these chips recently for my htpc, but couldn't find anywhere in the UK seeking them. Any ideas?

 

[R4z0r]

What do people think about this?

https://www.techspot.com/review/1968-ryzen-3600-vs-2600-gaming-scaling/

Seems there is a meaningful performance gain with the higher powered GPUs.

 

[Participant]

What do people think about this?

https://www.techspot.com/review/1968-ryzen-3600-vs-2600-gaming-scaling/

Seems there is a meaningful performance gain with the higher powered GPUs.

My thoughts are that if you can afford the type of GPU where it makes a difference, you'd be going Zen 2 for an extra £45 out of those two. However I also tend to think that those people would be going 8 core.

Personally I adopt a mid-range N-1 principle, so 2600 + 5700XT.

 

[Aretak]

I was looking into these chips recently for my htpc, but couldn't find anywhere in the UK seeking them. Any ideas?

They're available for £94.97 at the moment, but obviously can't mention the site as they're a competitor. I'm sure if you carefully contemplate life you'll find it though. They were available for under £90 a while back, but the current situation has pushed prices up a bit on everything it seems.

 

[CuriousTomCat]

Hi all,

lately I have been looking into upgrading my i5-8400 for some gaming at 1440p where I was noticing some struggling (RTX 2070 S) and Lightroom/Photoshop. I checked many reviews of both Ryzen and i7-9700k/8700k CPU and honestly I have a hard time justifying the upgrade.
In every comparison I read between the humble i5-8400 and other much more expensive CPUs, there were small differences and only at specialized cases.
- so at 1440p almost all games didn't show a difference of more than 5-10fps
- at lower resolutions difference was higher but both CPU were performing good (>60fps)
- at apps the only big difference was at severely multi threaded apps like video rendering which is rather specialized. Even Photoshop didn't show such a high difference while exporting...

What am I missing here? Is it my wrong impression or the high end CPUs are just a marketing plot with no actual needs to cover?

Games rarely use more than six cores at the moment. You already have six cores so there's no need to upgrade if gaming is all you do.

It would be like making a phone call on the new iphone 11 Pro and saying "that phone call was no different than what I could do on my Nokia 3310, what am I missing here?". If you dont use any programs that make use of it, an 8400 is all you need.

 

[Participant]

They're available for £94.97 at the moment, but obviously can't mention the site as they're a competitor. I'm sure if you carefully contemplate life you'll find it though. They were available for under £90 a while back, but the current situation has pushed prices up a bit on everything it seems.

Yeah thanks I looked there but in the specifications it says it's an AE part number.

 

[yannis76]

Yes, I know due to X-trans. Shame really as Fuji do some great cameras. Still run the DXO test please with my RAW file and preset in the link, I'm curious to see how well long your 8400 takes. Link to trial version.
https://www.dxo.com/dxo-photolab/download/

If you do the Photoshop and Lightroom tests then post back. The Photoshop test takes about ~25min-35min and the Lightroom one is longer.

I tried running them but unfortunately cant run it. Says catalog is too new error...

 

[Aretak]

Yeah thanks I looked there but in the specifications it says it's an AE part number.

If you hover over that, it displays the AF part number too. If you have a look at some of the posts about it on HUKD for example, everybody's been getting the AF model over the past few months.

 

[humbug]

What do people think about this?

https://www.techspot.com/review/1968-ryzen-3600-vs-2600-gaming-scaling/

Seems there is a meaningful performance gain with the higher powered GPUs.

There is but how much?

It seems to me at 1080P every CPU is to some extent bottlenecking a GPU above and perhaps including an RX 5700.

At the most extreme end, IE with 1080P medium settings a Ryzen 3900X is 6% faster than a 3600, a 9900K is 8% faster than the 3900X.

Lets ignore the £400+ 3900X, The £450 9900K is 15% faster than the £170 3600, this at 1080P medium settings with a 2080TI.

The 9900K is the fastest CPU there when paired with the fastest GPU, at 1080P medium settings, by 15% and near £300 more expensive. don't get me wrong, take nothing away from the 9900K its a great CPU and obviously there is a market for its superior gaming performance.....

But you're asking what people think. I think the Ryzen 3600 is the best thing since sliced bread!


PS: I have an RX 5700XT on the way, i have a 1440P screen.

 

[humbug]

To be clear, what i'm saying is the 3600 is all you need now and probably for the next couple of years, unless you have money to burn and are running your games at 1080P on a 2080TI, anything above it purely for gaming is a waste of money, spend the difference on a better GPU, a new case, a bigger SSD, anything but the CPU.