AMD Zen 3 (5000 Series), rumored 17% IPC gain.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 9 May 2020 at 20:29

Grim5 said:
Then you manually overclock it like mine, PBO/Boost is junk anyway

Or they will lock things out. The fact is there is no guarentee Zen3 is fully compatible,as even the Zen3 compatibility will probably have a disclaimer somewhere. They did this back in the day many years ago,with older CPUs,where certain things were limited. There are a lot of X570 motherboards with 16MB BIOSes too,so AMD could also point to these motherboards.

opethdisciple · 9 May 2020 at 20:40

Well I bought this X570 only a few months back with the full knowledge that I was buying in to a product that only had one more CPU generation left.

I'm also thinking that I don't need another CPU upgrade and would be better off skipping Zen 3 anyway and getting what comes next for DDR5 support and PCI-E 5 etc....

Knowing how history has gone so far probably the temptation of a 4700x or 4800x may prove too much but I doubt games over the next 2 years are going to cripple the 3700x anyway.

MartinPrince · 9 May 2020 at 20:48

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
...There are a lot of X570 motherboards with 16MB BIOSes too,so AMD could also point to these motherboards.

I was thinking the same thing. It's a case of waiting to see because apparently there is precedence where AMD have relented due to public backlash, though I can't see it myself but we'll soon find out.

Joxeon · 9 May 2020 at 20:52

Grim5 said:
they will release x670 alongside zen3 but they've said X570 is able to use zen3 with a bios update

It also says its subject to change. What happens if they find the x570s with only the 16 mb bios chip can't fit the microcode.

Grim5 · 9 May 2020 at 20:58

Joxeon said:
It also says its subject to change. What happens if they find the x570s with only the 16 mb bios chip can't fit the microcode.

Then only the boards with 256bit 32mb ROMs support it. Which manufacturers cheaped out on the ROM for X570, name and shame them. I bet gigabyte is one of them

Joxeon · 9 May 2020 at 21:02

MartinPrince said:
I was thinking the same thing. It's a case of waiting to see because apparently there is precedence where AMD have relented due to public backlash, though I can't see it myself but we'll soon find out.

I'm sure bios modders will come up with something if AMD won't as there's no physical limitations.

opethdisciple · 9 May 2020 at 21:12

Joxeon said:
It also says its subject to change. What happens if they find the x570s with only the 16 mb bios chip can't fit the microcode.

You make two branches for the bios. One with 4000 series support only and one for 3000 series support only.

Chuk_Chuk · 9 May 2020 at 21:22

Out of curiosity are there boards with 8MB bios chips or is 16MB the smallest

LePhuronn · 9 May 2020 at 21:44

Gerard said:
After bulldozer and it's irritives

Is that a portmanteau of "irritating" and "derivatives"?

Gerard · 9 May 2020 at 21:54

LePhuronn said:
Is that a portmanteau of "irritating" and "derivatives"?

Meant iterations

LePhuronn · 9 May 2020 at 22:00

Gerard said:
Meant iterations

Nah, keep irritives, sounds better

Participant · 10 May 2020 at 07:59

opethdisciple said:
Whilst this is very true, I'm pretty sure I remember AMDs marketing during 2017 saying that the AM4 socket would see 4 generations of CPUs.

It will

Curlyriff · 10 May 2020 at 08:11

opethdisciple said:
Whilst this is very true, I'm pretty sure I remember AMDs marketing during 2017 saying that the AM4 socket would see 4 generations of CPUs.

They never mentioned number of releases at all. We all posted suggesting it would likely be if they meant to include 2020.

Looking back at the slides it does kinda show up to 2020 from what's been posted and the wording wasn't clear which I feel was marketing on purpose. However yeah, no mention of 4 generations.

Donnie Fisher · 10 May 2020 at 09:40

To me, it seems to really narrow down the whole B550\x570 and 4000 series line up to the point its almost a little unattractive as a product generation if your coming from an existing Ryzen setup. Why would you bother with it for long term as an upgrade path.

By that, I mean ( as I understand it ):
- If you had an x470 board, a 4000 series CPU would be a great future upgrade .... not possible.
- If you thought you would buy a newer motherboard, using an older CPU you already have in the first instance ... not possible.

So you need to jump with both feet ( CPU and board ) into the line up, but knowing that its likely it'll be changed socket and outspecced come the next generation diminished the attractiveness of it.

The prospect of a newer socket ( and its longer upgrade path ) in the next generation would make that the better upgrade path and worth waiting for.

Joxeon · 10 May 2020 at 10:43

Donnie Fisher said:
To me, it seems to really narrow down the whole B550\x570 and 4000 series line up to the point its almost a little unattractive as a product generation if your coming from an existing Ryzen setup. Why would you bother with it for long term as an upgrade path.

By that, I mean ( as I understand it ):
- If you had an x470 board, a 4000 series CPU would be a great future upgrade .... not possible.
- If you thought you would buy a newer motherboard, using an older CPU you already have in the first instance ... not possible.

So you need to jump with both feet ( CPU and board ) into the line up, but knowing that its likely it'll be changed socket and outspecced come the next generation diminished the attractiveness of it.

The prospect of a newer socket ( and its longer upgrade path ) in the next generation would make that the better upgrade path and worth waiting for.

Totally agree and another point is if you brought the X570 which is now the only chipset currently that will support zen 3 then you likely brought a more powerful zen 2 CPU with a higher core count to go with it so again would you really need to upgrade as opposed to the guy with a b450 and a 2600 or 3600 looking to drop a 4700x in.

Anchundan · 10 May 2020 at 11:16

so people with a B450 will probably want to hang on for Zen 4 if it's on a different socket and comes out next year. People with an X570 will probably also wait for Zen 4, as they already have a powerful Zen 2 CPU, so who will actually buy this Zen 3?

Apart from me, that is, as I haven't had an upgrade in years, and because this CPU is unlikely to be very popular, it might be priced accordingly. Hopefully.

Grim5 · 10 May 2020 at 11:20

Anchundan said:
so people with a B450 will probably want to hang on for Zen 4 if it's on a different socket and comes out next year. People with an X570 will probably also wait for Zen 4, as they already have a powerful Zen 2 CPU, so who will actually buy this Zen 3?

Apart from me, that is, as I haven't had an upgrade in years, and because this CPU is unlikely to be very popular, it might be priced accordingly. Hopefully.

Some people:

* Don't even have zen cpu, they on intel 2500k or bulldozer so zen 3 is a good upgrade

* Just want the best every year and upgrade every year

Perfect_Chaos · 10 May 2020 at 11:22

Anchundan said:
so people with a B450 will probably want to hang on for Zen 4 if it's on a different socket and comes out next year. People with an X570 will probably also wait for Zen 4, as they already have a powerful Zen 2 CPU, so who will actually buy this Zen 3?

Well AMD are doing well in multicore performance but still need stronger single core (or lower latency) performance, which is what's rumoured with Zen 3. So if it's a decent lift i will upgrade.

Current rumours also say Zen 4 will be less of an upgrade than Zen 3 in terms of IPC i think.

Participant · 10 May 2020 at 11:46

Anchundan said:
so people with a B450 will probably want to hang on for Zen 4 if it's on a different socket and comes out next year. People with an X570 will probably also wait for Zen 4, as they already have a powerful Zen 2 CPU, so who will actually buy this Zen 3?

Apart from me, that is, as I haven't had an upgrade in years, and because this CPU is unlikely to be very popular, it might be priced accordingly. Hopefully.

I'm still on a 4690K so am eyeing up a Zen 3 8 core Flight Sim / CyberPunk build later this year, which I expect to keep it for ~5 years.

So I'm definitely in the market for Zen 3, and don't forget there is still an upgrade path for people like me on AM4: more cores.

Donnie Fisher · 10 May 2020 at 12:24

Dont get me wrong, if you are building from scratch or coming from Intel etc then the lineup/family will likely be a very decent option to build with. But as something to make an upgrade step into ... its not really that attractive.

I do accept that sockets like the AM4 will have a finite life, but considering that this is likely the last of the line, it seems a shame that it hasn't been made as the goal that paths can lead to.