Scaling on MBP 4K not as clear as Windows?

[Gangster]

Hi all,

Weird one here. Usually MBP offers the sharpest, clearest text - it still does on its actual laptop screen compared to Windows. I'm using the new Dell 43 4K monitor for PC and Mac. Connected via USB-C.

What's weird is the PC is much clearer than the Mac is with its text. On Windows I use 125% Scaling instead of 100% 4K. I've tried all of the settings on the Mac and it doesn't get close to what Windows does in terms of clearness.

I was under the impression that Mac OS had the better ability to scale, so I am wondering why I am encountering this problem?

Another issue is the fans kick up fairly loudly with the lid closed and just plugged into the monitor with nothing really intensive going on (web pages and youtube). Slightly annoying for a 15'' MBP.

Anyone have any ideas at all?

 

[ChrisD.]

How is the Mac connected to the display?

 

[Gangster]

How is the Mac connected to the display?

Just edited that in, sorry. It's via USB-C using the cable supplied by Dell.

 

[shiver]

What scaling options do you get in System Preferences > Displays ?

Here's what I see for my LG :

 

[TheUncookedPie]

Alt-click on the scaled dot and manually select the resolution. On a 4k monitor your non-blurry options are 4k or 1080.

 

[whitecrook]

Or click default for display

 

[Gangster]

Sorry for not replying to this. I've tried to capture what I am seeing but it is quite difficult. The image I've attached here shows a good example of what is happening to the text.

The Dell 43 when set to 1920x1080 is perfect, however the issue is of course screen real estate!

Surely someone out there has come across the same as me and has a solution? I've tried all of the sliders by the way, and 1080 is the only which smooths the text.

 

[whitecrook]

i think this is right... but the picture on the right here is a quarter of the size (half as big in X and Y ) of the one on the left, in real life?

 

[Gangster]

i think this is right... but the picture on the right here is a quarter of the size (half as big in X and Y ) of the one on the left, in real life?

yep but I was trying to show how smooth the text is on the left versus the right.... perfect comparison is difficult but even with the right,4k, shrunk the text is not smooth... its fuzzy/looks like sharpness on the monitor is extremely high for example.

 

[whitecrook]

yep but I was trying to show how smooth the text is on the left versus the right.... perfect comparison is difficult but even with the right,4k, shrunk the text is not smooth... its fuzzy/looks like sharpness on the monitor is extremely high for example.

Not sure what to say…text using fewer pixels looks less smooth than text using 4x as many pixels. Are you saying this is not what you expected?

can you post a full size screen shot of your desktop browser capture once at 4k scaled and once at 4k no scaled.

 

[Squink]

yep but I was trying to show how smooth the text is on the left versus the right.... perfect comparison is difficult but even with the right,4k, shrunk the text is not smooth... its fuzzy/looks like sharpness on the monitor is extremely high for example.

I had a similar issue, though it was on a 3440 UW monitor and in spite of much research and forum input, I couldn't get the text to appear with anything like the clarity as it does on Windows. In the end, I loved the monitor more than I loved MacOS.

 

[MrRockliffe]

Another issue is the fans kick up fairly loudly with the lid closed and just plugged into the monitor with nothing really intensive going on (web pages and youtube). Slightly annoying for a 15'' MBP.

This is, in my experience, common, since the dedicated GPU is having to engage, and the MacBooks aren’t very thermally efficient.



Re scaling - issue could be due to the MacBook not using the same scaling technique used for the laptop display, or on an LG Ultrafine, for example.

This method upscales the image and then down scales it for the display in question


Standard scaling will literally tries to fit the desired resolution onto the screen in question.




https://spin.atomicobject.com/2018/08/24/macbook-pro-external-monitor-display-problem/




Edit: OP, is the issue you’re having at 4K, not a scaled resolution?

 

[Gangster]

Not sure what to say…text using fewer pixels looks less smooth than text using 4x as many pixels. Are you saying this is not what you expected?

can you post a full size screen shot of your desktop browser capture once at 4k scaled and once at 4k no scaled.

I understand that, but they aren't smooth. I was just trying to highlight how un smooth the text is.

Re shot I'll see if I can do that later this evening.

I had a similar issue, though it was on a 3440 UW monitor and in spite of much research and forum input, I couldn't get the text to appear with anything like the clarity as it does on Windows. In the end, I loved the monitor more than I loved MacOS.

Pretty annoying tbh, I did want to look at a mac mini too however I assume it'll have the exact same problems which is quite bizarre. Windows has no issue at all displaying the text clearly... but I want it on macOS!

I mean, I understand it isn't going to have the clarity of a 5K iMac, and I am ok with that but god the text is awful at 4k.

This is, in my experience, common, since the dedicated GPU is having to engage, and the MacBooks aren’t very thermally efficient.

Re scaling - issue could be due to the MacBook not using the same scaling technique used for the laptop display, or on an LG Ultrafine, for example.

This method upscales the image and then down scales it for the display in question


Standard scaling will literally tries to fit the desired resolution onto the screen in question.

https://spin.atomicobject.com/2018/08/24/macbook-pro-external-monitor-display-problem/


Edit: OP, is the issue you’re having at 4K, not a scaled resolution?

Kind of wish it was more widely talked about. Did a lot of research before buying it and not once did I find any complaints about it so I assumed everything was fine. Saw setups on youtube and here, laptop alongside displays etc.

Issue is when selecting 4K (matches the screen resolution) and all other options, the only one it is ok with and I am happy with the clarity is 1920x1080 however there isn't much screen estate and to have that on a 43'' is a bit excessive lol.

I did look at the whole ymb vs rgb thing, and it looks like my dell is accepting it as RGB so that's that eliminated but thank you.

 

[whitecrook]

I Windows has no issue at all displaying the text clearly... but I want it on macOS!

i need to see a 1:1 screenshot of your windows and your mac to understand what you are seeing. I suspect you have your windows scaled bigger than the macso so again, it's using more pixels so it looks better.

Many years ago I used to run on my sony FDW900 (24" sony CRT") at 1920x1200 but have scaling set to make things look as if they were about 1200x800 or so - I much enjoyed the 'HI DPI' effect literally a decade before it was popular.

Kind of wish it was more widely talked about. Did a lot of research before buying it and not once did I find any complaints about it so I assumed everything was fine.

honestly i still don't know what your 'problem' is ?

Issue is when selecting 4K (matches the screen resolution) and all other options, the only one it is ok with and I am happy with the clarity is 1920x1080 however there isn't much screen estate and to have that on a 43'' is a bit excessive lol.

this res is literally scaling 2x to give each pixel of the 1080 screen 4x pixels. Yes it looks excellent . this is what I did above nearly 20 years go. Anything else you do will look 'less' than this because nothing can provide such a ratio of pixels to picture.

The 5K display ( I have one too, ) does the same thing but takes the 5K res and makes it look like 2560x1440 so same effect (4x pixels = 1 picture pixel) , just more pixels. Yep it looks amazing.

 

[Dazzy]

Kind of wish it was more widely talked about. Did a lot of research before buying it and not once did I find any complaints about it so I assumed everything was fine. Saw setups on youtube and here, laptop alongside displays etc.

Issue is when selecting 4K (matches the screen resolution) and all other options, the only one it is ok with and I am happy with the clarity is 1920x1080 however there isn't much screen estate and to have that on a 43'' is a bit excessive lol.

I did look at the whole ymb vs rgb thing, and it looks like my dell is accepting it as RGB so that's that eliminated but thank you.

It is the same at 1440p on a 25" dell monitor; pin sharp on windows and fuzzy text rendering on Mac OS. I spent a long time trying to find a fix but it is just the way it is. It's down to how the operating systems handle text rendering (possibly more anti aliasing in Windows?).

The monitors are more than good enough for this not to be an issue but for whatever reason Mac OS makes fonts looks poor at anything below 'retina' PPI. You notice it much more if you reguarly switch between Windows/Mac on the same screen. If you just use Mac for a while your eyes get used to the blur.

Apple will never fix this so its either deal with the poor fonts, pay the apple tax and get a higher resolution screen, or vote with your feet and use Windows.

 

[Squink]

Apple will never fix this so its either deal with the poor fonts, pay the apple tax and get a higher resolution screen, or vote with your feet and use Windows.

The thing is, it's not like Apple really benefit from it - if they had a line of Apple-branded monitors suitable for the home consumer to use with a Mac Mini or a MacBook, I could understand (if not agree with) the reason for paying no attention to the fonts on lower-res monitors. As it stands, it's just an additional and unnecessary cost for your average consumer who wants to try MacOS with an existing monitor that otherwise works perfectly fine on Windows. I mean, it's text, for god's sake. Why not just fix it?

 

[Dazzy]

The thing is, it's not like Apple really benefit from it - if they had a line of Apple-branded monitors suitable for the home consumer to use with a Mac Mini or a MacBook, I could understand (if not agree with) the reason for paying no attention to the fonts on lower-res monitors. As it stands, it's just an additional and unnecessary cost for your average consumer who wants to try MacOS with an existing monitor that otherwise works perfectly fine on Windows. I mean, it's text, for god's sake. Why not just fix it?

Apple are very clever with product segmentation and they want to encourage you to buy their products with retina screens included (the screen you have to re-buy with every new device). Anything that makes Mac work better with cheaper equipment will discourage that.

Want a portable computer - buy a MacBook.
Want a bigger screen - buy an iMac.
Want a second screen - buy an iPad.

Want to cut out some of the devices and use a MacBook with external monitors. Sure you can but it'll be more awkward than it needs to be.

 

[whitecrook]

is THIS what you guys are talking about ?

maybe OP wants this ? https://osxdaily.com/2010/02/18/change-font-smoothing-settings/