Yeah but soundbar aren't wireless surround sound, they're a compromise that isn't as good as a proper multi speaker set up, generally.
Is the snake oil slowly retreating from the Hi-Fi industry?
- Thread starter Gimpymoo
- Start date
Yeah but soundbar aren't wireless surround sound, they're a compromise that isn't as good as a proper multi speaker set up, generally.
Thicker core with shielded cable. Bigger amps require a steady supply. I’m not fully into the mechanics of how and why, I’ll be perfectly honest.
You get guys who only believe what the testing equipment says and there is no way it can be any different. The science doesn’t lie kinda guys.
Until you sit there and actually have a few amps or cables to listen with it is hard to portray what you want to say. Music is an emotion. Equipment doesn’t measure emotions. Some people have no idea about transients, decay, bloom, imaging etc. I’m not fully into the hi-fi speak as it actually sounds quite snobbish and boring if I’m truthful. What you would want to say as to how the soundstage is would be different to how I portray it probably. Does buying more expensive gear return a better overall quality of sound. I think it does.how far you go up that ladder is up to you, the wife and your wallet.
Most audiophiles who buy this top end gear are retired and old . The irony is their hearing isn’t what it was. They only listen to composers and string quartets and such.
Try going to a hi fi show. They play the same stuff all the time. A great master copy of some music that doesn’t test the system at all.
Although a nice piano piece does make you sit up and listen. With some gear the notes just hang in the air. It’s quite palpable.
I can sit there in my lounge, no dedicated listening room and pick out exactly where the musicians are, where there instruments are. Which side of the mic the singer is. This is what a decent set up will do for you.
Sometimes you could reach out and touch the singer, they feel like they are in the room with you.
I believe there is a level bs and said snake oil that perpetuates the lambasting the nay sayers give the audiophiles. It will always be there. does it bother me? Not at all. Do I wish I was knowledgable so I could put them in their place. Nope, I’d rather listen to my hi-fi and let the debate carry on.
I say let they guys with the money keep buying the latest gear that is pushed on them. I can have their hand me downs.
The system I had five years ago started of with kef r500 speakers an audio research vs115 tube amp, a Bricasti M1 dac, a pc that I built, Sotm 200 ultra USB clock, power supply and server. kubala sosna emotion cable. I then swapped the kefs for a pair of Sonus Faber Olympica iii’s.
The speakers were too big for the room, knew it as soon as I got them. I couldn’t get on with the digital sound of the dac or the streaming. So it all went after about 18 months apart from the amp.
It’s all part of the journey I guess. I am pretty much done with what it have now. Maybe I’ll diip my toe back into The digital side.....who knows.
The old and the retired probably achieved the above 20 years ago.
Soldato
Yeah and some more
"Hey I like that echo, had that once before, ......but it was chemically induced" (Name that Song/Album/Artist).
Audiophiles problem seem older because when your are young you perhaps have less time and money to listen that often to decent gear.
Older generations had music and audio higher up their interest list. Now we have so many more interests fighting for our time and attention. Plus everything has now to be instant, mobile and disposable.
The average level of performance has risen for sure and now less people place a value on Hi performance audio. Shame as it misses a rewarding experience. Many may hear music more often now, but I'd speculate less actually listen to it with any intent.
The same way that all the open top sports cars I have seen recently are driven by men of a certain age with heads that need protection from the sun.
Young people generally don't have the money or the inclination to reach the highest level of sonic performance. I know there are exceptions to this but I enjoy stereotypes.
Soldato
This arguement will never disappear, ever.
I have experience growing up both negative from a hearing standpoint (a few operations) and positive from having a father that worked as an engineer for music studios. We had a Linn setup at home mainly as well as a few custom speakers he made, so i have him to thank for my interest in audio and sound in general.
I just consider a few basic things.
Since you're designing a system to playback music with a whole heap of variables with components with a another heap of variables, to go as far as some, in my opinion, is a rather pointless rabbit hole endeavour littered with placebos, subjectivity, scams and potentially of course, a huge amount of spending.
But it's a hobby for some and I can undertstand that. I just never used to understand some of the justifications people come up with, so I tend to ignore where the hardcore audioloons congregate.
I have experience growing up both negative from a hearing standpoint (a few operations) and positive from having a father that worked as an engineer for music studios. We had a Linn setup at home mainly as well as a few custom speakers he made, so i have him to thank for my interest in audio and sound in general.
I just consider a few basic things.
- Research and trial equipment yourself.
- Ensure quality for the budget and divide up budget sensibly.
- Know your music.
- Remember that you can change the sound, but beyond several points whether it's better/an improvement is purely subjective.
- Not everyone hears the same.
Since you're designing a system to playback music with a whole heap of variables with components with a another heap of variables, to go as far as some, in my opinion, is a rather pointless rabbit hole endeavour littered with placebos, subjectivity, scams and potentially of course, a huge amount of spending.
But it's a hobby for some and I can undertstand that. I just never used to understand some of the justifications people come up with, so I tend to ignore where the hardcore audioloons congregate.
Very well put.
Soldato
But it doesn’t. If there is no observed change in output from the speakers with different mains cables, how can you possible hear a difference?
Music is an emotion is just a phrase people use to self validate their expensive purchases
Then again, I’m an engineer and only believe what numbers tell me
Soldato
But it doesn’t. If there is no observed change in output from the speakers with different mains cables, how can you possible hear a difference?
Music is an emotion is just a phrase people use to self validate their expensive purchases
Then again, I’m an engineer and only believe what numbers tell me
Are you a Vulcan? LOL
Or just don't listen to music?
Are we sure we can measure what we actually we hear?
Even as an engineer (I am as well) you have to accept there is a place and need for subjective assessment and judgement some times, that's not only in audio.
Soldato
Yes, very. Humans hear sound through a range of 20 to 20,000 Hz, typically.
This can be measured in room by quality microphones.
There’s a difference between feeling what you hear, through pressurised air, and thinking you hear something you don’t.
Caporegime
For £120 I have equipment which can measure with significantly more sensitivity, at ranges outside of human hearing, in a non bias way and in a repeatable fashion.
Large suns of money and asking for someones subjective opinion do no make good bedfellows.
To a point, i get that better speakers, amps, processing and cables will get, in some cases, a significantly better result, but hearing the difference between a power lead or fuse, nope.
The best thing is several of these people seem to be running expensive equipment and have not thought about the biggest impact to the sound, THE ROOM and the lack of any treatment.
But it doesn’t. If there is no observed change in output from the speakers with different mains cables, how can you possible hear a difference?
Music is an emotion is just a phrase people use to self validate their expensive purchases
Then again, I’m an engineer and only believe what numbers tell me
As an engineer, you'll know that you can only measure the things your tools are designed to measure, and to the accuracy of those tools.
Soldato
100% agree with that, many don't understand the room is the biggest influence. Which will mask many subtle improvements elsewhere should they really exist. Which I why I have GIK panels, plus the option to run electronic correction in the digital domain.
Can your £120 equipment tell the sound difference between a Aluminium foil capacitor and a standard PP one of the same value in a speaker crossover?
But it doesn’t. If there is no observed change in output from the speakers with different mains cables, how can you possible hear a difference?
Music is an emotion is just a phrase people use to self validate their expensive purchases
Then again, I’m an engineer and only believe what numbers tell me
I was shown early on that plugging an amp lead into a 5 bar extension is not the way to go. so I plugged it into the mains with a more substantial lead, with a free super fuse I might add ( not that I think the fuse does anything) 'Oh' was my reply when I played a cd. It was a massive improvement. it sounded richer, more fuller, warmer. A bigger sound stage was present. it was totally different. . But its the same electricity? right? resistance and all that science stuff again.
Back to the snake oil part. I believe it to be still there, but not as bad as it has been. I wanted to try some more speaker cable at the start of the year, but I wasn't going to buy it new. On the bay a pair of Thownsend fractal f1 cables came up. 4k new for a 2m pair. this was going for half price. I arranged with the shop that if I paid for it could I have it for a demo, if i liked it i'd have it, if i didn't it can go back. sure he said. But I'll bet this will be the last cable you buy he said.
What a complete load of garbage. It was cheap looking stuff. horrid stiff woven plastic for a cover, with cheap looking connectors.
The sound made my system feel like it had been given acid. it was a trippy holographic sound. Maybe its my hearing as its the same as having muscle memory and so you get used to a certain sound. Nope. it was awful. Everything had a weird halo to it. Its just copper wire though isn't it? Probably why it was half price.
If you go into this hobby blindfolded, you will get burnt and it will cost you money, this I know from experience. The emperors new clothes is a powerful aphrodisiac to some
@Yaayhu! summed it up very eloquently.
As for room correction, well I haven't really had to do a lot, or so I think. it is quite dead with the furnishings in their. Although there will be a few nodes here and there that could be corrected if I had the inclination and program to do so. It has taken me quite a few hours though to get the speakers just so.
I have a balanced tube dac with four Kron px4 tubes and a Kron 5u4g rectifier. Best dac I have owned, hands down. If you change the tubes you get a different presentation as I have read on the forums. Tube rolling as they call it. This is taking it to another level.
look, i'm a hairy arsed commercial floor layer pretending to play with the real audiophiles with no delusions.I can sort the wheat from the chaff and I know my limits. What I do know is that I wouldn't try and BS anyone as to what my experiences have been.
Super fuses. lol. You think that's bad..... Google Stillpoints ultra 6.. snake oil alive and well wrapped up in a BS tortilla wrap.
Edit* Nordost Odin 2 mains cable... Don't tell me you didn't just spit your whiskey out
Happy listening.. Go team blue!!!
... or am I ?
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Deuland pure Silver or Mundorf silver oil supreme caps. Now we talkin!
I'm not certain that this isn't a joke...
Soldato
I'm using Jantzen, Alumin Z cap and Silver Z Cap (plus foil inductors) in some rebuilt Celestion SL6si ...... Stunning.
Don
Seems you are not certain then. Good for you!
You poke it with fire as much as you want, burn it down my friend. Water of a ducks back. I guess you will be getting the 10900k as they seem to blow hot air as wellIt's that extra orchestra hidden in the substantial lead
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Soldato
I dont get it, we don't get this mysticism surrounding the human eye, so what makes the ear any different? With eyes, we know exactly what the limits are, what range of colours it can process, how far it can see.
With ears...nope. It's wrapped in 'secrecy' and our equipment isn't good enough to assess it.
What's the difference?
How in god's name does that improve a power cable in any way?
With ears...nope. It's wrapped in 'secrecy' and our equipment isn't good enough to assess it.
What's the difference?
Right, so we know you've personally purchased an Russ Andrews Kord of some kind. OK. So answer me this:
How in god's name does that improve a power cable in any way?