Need help deciding on bass focused headphones for Music/Gaming

Blueyoshi03 · 5 Jun 2020 at 20:53

TL

R I want a good sound stage and bass but am unsure what to buy

So I'm currently using Hyperx Alpha headphones and a Soundblaster Z soundcard. The quality is good and using the equaliser I can really crank the bass where it even physical shakes the headphones, but I always get a sense of strain that they can't produce all levels at once and feels like the sound is almost constricted if that makes sense. I want to buy a new high-ish end pair of headphones for mostly music but also something competent for games.

As the title says, main focus is something that can handle a lot of bass when using my EQ, but I like the idea of an open ear since I can imagine this being very immersive when gaming, however I would guess this to be inferior for strong bass vs closed? I keep reading reviews of HD650s and headphones around that tier, but always seem to find the reviewers saying how the bass isn't that punchy.

I would be willing to go up to a £400~ budget possibly, but the less I can spend the better, especially since I've heard some £150 can compete with some £300+ etc.

Any advise would be great for me to figure out, Thanks!

PapaLazaru · 5 Jun 2020 at 22:34

Fidelio X2HR. £120, easy to drive, open, quite spacious, good bass.

Ryanr1987 · 6 Jun 2020 at 14:42

What do you class as good bass? do you want boosted mid bass? extended? staging perception is caused by upper mid recession, deep cups or both.

K712
DT880
DT990

If you don't mind the wait Verum 1 would be favoured over all of those easily especially if you wanna use EQ.

Blueyoshi03 · 7 Jun 2020 at 03:01

To be honest I really have no idea. I don't know what a boosted mid or upper mid sounds like, the only thing I can comment in terms of good bass (and this might be an oxymoron) is a punchy deep sound without it muddying the other channels and just becoming indistinguishable, and probably in most situations if I'm really into a specific song (depending on genre) I might push the lower channels into distortion to get a more intense sound, although with my current setup it really feels strained as I described originally. The K712 looks interesting, will check reviews etc, the only thing I'm a little worried of with the DT's are I sometimes find reviewers referring to them as monitoring or more studio function headphones

Ryanr1987 · 7 Jun 2020 at 16:08

Blueyoshi03 said:
To be honest I really have no idea. I don't know what a boosted mid or upper mid sounds like, the only thing I can comment in terms of good bass (and this might be an oxymoron) is a punchy deep sound without it muddying the other channels and just becoming indistinguishable, and probably in most situations if I'm really into a specific song (depending on genre) I might push the lower channels into distortion to get a more intense sound, although with my current setup it really feels strained as I described originally. The K712 looks interesting, will check reviews etc, the only thing I'm a little worried of with the DT's are I sometimes find reviewers referring to them as monitoring or more studio function headphones

Don't pay too much attention to what they're referred to. I think the K712 is a safe bet, I tend to find it has one of the cleanest bass for a dynamic headphone in that £500 and under bracket. DT990 are really bassy, not very defined though, all Beyers sound undefined in the bass apart from the 880 but it might be a bit bass light for you.

Blueyoshi03 · 8 Jun 2020 at 16:11

Thank you for the input so far, it has been very useful and helped me continue researching for what I want. I wanted to hold onto my soundcard cos it feels a waste to stop using something I already have and buy something new, however considering I'm finding reviewers say anything from £100 can trade blows with £500 headphones with the right equipment in some cases, I think it would he more cost effective to pay under £200 and maybe another £100 on a dac/ amp instead of blowing it all on the headphones.

A question I have though, is can I use a virtual EQ on my pc after dac/ amp processing? Or do I need a physical equaliser? Since the eq on my soundcard is my favourite part of it.

And separately is there a significant difference in quality from different dacs/ amps to a casual listener, or is it just worth buying what seems good value?

Ryanr1987 · 8 Jun 2020 at 16:28

Blueyoshi03 said:
Thank you for the input so far, it has been very useful and helped me continue researching for what I want. I wanted to hold onto my soundcard cos it feels a waste to stop using something I already have and buy something new, however considering I'm finding reviewers say anything from £100 can trade blows with £500 headphones with the right equipment in some cases, I think it would he more cost effective to pay under £200 and maybe another £100 on a dac/ amp instead of blowing it all on the headphones.

A question I have though, is can I use a virtual EQ on my pc after dac/ amp processing? Or do I need a physical equaliser? Since the eq on my soundcard is my favourite part of it.

And separately is there a significant difference in quality from different dacs/ amps to a casual listener, or is it just worth buying what seems good value?

Do you mean can you tinker with the sound? if so then yes there's a few softwares you can find online, whether they're good or not I'm not sure as I don't EQ I'm sure some on here know of a some specifics. In terms of if you'll hear a difference, it really depends on you, some just starting out always say they can't hear a difference at first. I can say it does take a while to "train" your ears it requires listening to a lot of different gear. Difficult question to answer. The problem is there's a lot of crap out there, there's also a lot of parroting misinformation etc just like anything tech related really. A lot of the Schiit stuff is well made, good value most won't need more than a Magni 3/Hersay/+ and a Modi 3. My current DAC I got from mass drop for like £90 and I've used it with gear like the HD800/LCD-4 with amps ranging from £500-2000 and it's been phenomenal. You can get better DACs but the price increase isn't significant like an amp or headphones. Comparing two well made DACs will drive you crazy.

Kanifee · 8 Jun 2020 at 18:54

Is the AKG stuff a good suggestion for bass focused gear? Being upfront I have never heard the 712's, I do own the Q701 which I am intimately familiar with and by all accounts they are not a million miles away form the 712's. AKG's house sound is known to be bass light or rather bass quality over quamtity, they have it, the 01's do and it's quality bass but it isn't full and low punching with deep impact and most certainly far off the scale of cans like the DT990. Great cans, just not what i would advise for a bass focused headphone, if you want clarity, precise forward highs then AKG's have you covered but you do need a decent amp to get them singing nicely, I haven't heard any of the non tube schiit stuff.

Ryanr1987 · 8 Jun 2020 at 19:42

Kanifee said:
Is the AKG stuff a good suggestion for bass focused gear? Being upfront I have never heard the 712's, I do own the Q701 which I am intimately familiar with and by all accounts they are not a million miles away form the 712's. AKG's house sound is known to be bass light or rather bass quality over quamtity, they have it, the 01's do and it's quality bass but it isn't full and low punching with deep impact and most certainly far off the scale of cans like the DT990. Great cans, just not what i would advise for a bass focused headphone, if you want clarity, precise forward highs then AKG's have you covered but you do need a decent amp to get them singing nicely, I haven't heard any of the non tube schiit stuff.

The OP wanted something with deep bass that isn't muddy, in reality that rules out the DT990 as I originally suggest before he clarified. The Q701 is tuned a differently to the K712. They have a more typical AKG sound which is 2k peak, plastic timbre, bass isn't elevated. The K712 has more bass hump, more thicker, impactful presentation they have cleaner bass than the HD650, D990 for example, more articulate in that area. The K712 is a warm headphone where as they Q701 leans towards the other way like the K701/02.

Kanifee · 8 Jun 2020 at 20:26

I figured they have been tuned different just all of the reviews i have seen of the 12's when I contemplated upgrading to them from the 01's stated characteristics I could relate to already owning the 01's, bass being one of them and yes they did state it was more impactful but still had that more neutral leaning sound. Don't get me wrong, I think the bass of the 990's is sloppy but ill have to see if i can lay hands on some 712's to see how different they are.

KiiYzOo · 8 Jun 2020 at 22:06

Some great options in terms of very bass focussed headphones are fostex th-x00 ebony’s (these can only be got second hand now), audioquest nighthawk carbons (I personally use these and they rumble loads in the bassy hip hop tracks I listen to), meze 99 noirs and the Beyerdynamic dt 177x go these are all good from what I have seen (and personally heard in the case of the hawks). I would’ve suggested the modhouse Argons but you’d need a much higher power amp to run that properly.

I would suggest pairing most headphones with something a bit better than an internal sound card as they’d get the extra impact from a good amp and dac pairing.

Something like the topping e30 and the jds labs atom would be a good place to start I think along with maybe the x2hr to keep it under budget.

Blueyoshi03 · 10 Jun 2020 at 11:52

I think after hours and hours of forums/ reviews/ researching on audio in general I've made my mind up. After all of the suggestions here I finally fell into looking at the DT 770 pros, I would prefer the 1770 but the price jump was too high for me, however the previous post listed a bunch of headphones I've not heard of before which I thought was weird considering I don't see these in review comparisons anywhere.

The Nighthawks seemed particularly interesting and the reviews looked good for what I want, so I was down to 770 Pro vs Nighthawk Carbons and just now found a different forum where someone with nearly my exact situation was stuck between the same pair and wanted the same thing as me and in the end he bought both and returned one and gave an updated review on what he preferred. He picked the Nighthawks which I am also leaning towards,and he gave 2 opinions that sold me on them. The main con was the Nighthawks lacked treble compared to the 770's but that was fixable in an EQ, but the 770's were too bright and could be piercing at high volume, which he couldn't fix in the EQ.

The main thing I hate with my current HyperX Alphas paired with my card are that despite distortion and quality, if I really crank the bass and volume I can get them to rumble, and they might not technically sound 'good' but its fun and enjoyable, however the highs really start piercing and its very fatiguing.

Everyone says the Nighthawks aren't for everyone and are polarising, however all of the comments users seem to make around them are all heavily positive, so I am happy to go with these, especially considering they are 25 Ohms. They might not have the soundstage and imaging that would pair for gaming, but they are at least semi-open and might sound better when messing with the EQ.

Thanks everyone for the help

Ryanr1987 · 10 Jun 2020 at 13:46

The Nighthawk have absolutely zero depth, just be aware of this, they say semi open but they sound extremely claustrophobic. They are basically closed headphones the grill is only a way of controlling air flow in a minute way. The air is completely sucked out of the presentation. When people say they're polarising it's because the tuning is messed up completely. Don't get me wrong I do actually like the Nighthawk in a lot of ways, but tuning, depth and staging perception is not good for video games, at all. When I have them on I sometimes have to take them off soon after because it's a having someone giving you no personal space, a joke but kind of true. I really don't recommend them unless you're after that type of sound specifically.

I recommend the Nighthawk to people who have been around the headphone game for a while and want something different with a lot bass. For someone just getting into the Hobby and for gaming, DT770 is a better option, it has a more normal Frequency response a bit bass and treble happy but tastefully done. It's up to you but as someone whos owned the Nighthawk OG's and the Carbons, they're not everyday use or 1 and only headphones.

In short, fun for certain music, not ideal for video games.

Blueyoshi03 · 10 Jun 2020 at 14:00

Open sound, clarity, detail and quality are all quite important but I can't compromise on insufficient bass even if its a smooth dynamic sound. Without hearing them I can still agree from your description it probably wouldn't be a good daily driver and would suffer for gaming, and for very general music listening I would probably listen with a present bass but not blasting my head off, but sometimes I really want that, so with an EQ do you think the DT 770's can really get to a rumbling sound?

Ryanr1987 · 10 Jun 2020 at 15:29

The 770 are bassy headphones with good imaging , staging perception. They go down to 20hz without issues. Bass won't be a problem.

KiiYzOo · 10 Jun 2020 at 16:07

Personally I have found my hawks to be pretty good for gaming so far (I prefer them to my hd650s, although they dont exactly have much soundstage, and my t50rps), I do understand why people would say that they are kinda different though.

For what you are saying you like, I would maybe suggest to go towards something like the dt990 and either eq down the treble a bit, or using different foams to tame that treble a bit. Otherwise the dt770s could be pretty good for your tastes.

Ryanr1987 · 10 Jun 2020 at 16:32

Depends really everyone has their tolerance. I just can't stand headphones that can't provide much of an out of head experience for games. The HD650 have probably a near perfect response for music but gaming they were too closed in due to the upper mid rise. Voices have good weight, body but when it came to sound other aspects they were to close to the ears to give me a sense of depth. Nighthawks have a massive upper mid recession so in theory should give you depth perception but the massive bass hump, reverb of the cups and closed nature made everything smushed in the worst way but they have other aspects like a fairly clean bass, better treble extension than the HD650 resolution pretty close but it's just difficult to hear past the quirks for some people. I just personally just find it hard to recommend them to just anyone, most people just getting into the hobby don't know what they want in the same way as more experienced people so a safer phone is usually the best option rather than a headphone that does a lot of things questionable(tasteful to some though!)

I do enjoy the Nighthawk though they have something that I can enjoy and having had many biocellulose phones in the past appreciate the timbre they bring. The 990 and 770 are fantastic phones they just have been around for so long and do so much right. I had a 600ohm 770 out of speaker tapps and it was some of the most fun I've had with a headphone along with a well driven HE-6. I still use my 770 80ohm today which I've had for years and I've had so many phones come since then like the Eikon, Atticus, even had a legendary R10 and the 770- I just can always recommend.

KiiYzOo · 10 Jun 2020 at 16:41

Yeah I really want to try out a pair of 600 ohm beyers at some point, I think either dt880/990 or maybe the harmonicdyne helios. Definitely want to try out a 600ohm beyer for gaming, can’t get on with the k702s lack of comfort.

Ryanr1987 · 10 Jun 2020 at 16:57

Do you have the older style 702 with the bumps? I find even with the flat band I can only tolerate them for about 30 mins max they just feel way too clunky nowdays. Before I could tolerate them more but comfort has become so far up there that I'd give up some resolution for an extra few hours listening. I've never heard of the Helios before, had to google them and they look interesting I like the design of them.

KiiYzOo · 10 Jun 2020 at 17:11

Ryanr1987 said:
Do you have the older style 702 with the bumps? I find even with the flat band I can only tolerate them for about 30 mins max they just feel way too clunky nowdays. Before I could tolerate them more but comfort has become so far up there that I'd give up some resolution for an extra few hours listening. I've never heard of the Helios before, had to google them and they look interesting I like the design of them.

I’ve got the newer style but I could only play a couple games before the headband gave me a headache, the leather is just too tough for me. Also changed the pads to some brainwavz xls that were on my Monoprice retros which helped a lot but that headband is just rough to deal with.
Yeah they Helios looks really nice although not sure about the look of the headband. Someone on the HifiGuides forums raves about how much they like them, I’d definitely be buying them via amazon though since I’ve heard how linsoul can be for delivery.