Road Cycling

Soldato
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More than 15 hours a week is pretty serious, what do your weeks look like out of interest? I tend to vary between 12-20hrs which is just about manageable around work, but think I’ve only gone over 20 on holiday.

No idea once back to work. Anything like 20 just isn't sustainable in full time work though imo. Ignoring the time spent getting kit on/off, prepping bike (cleaning drivetrain, tire pressures etc), warm up/cool down, stretching etc that's 3 hours a day 5 days a week with a 5 hour ride at the weekend and one day off. Burn out time repeating that month on month as it's no life territory. If you include all the extra time as listed, plus other things, it's probably more like 25 hours at 20 ride time, maybe more. Last week I had 4 days off due to the saddle sores - back to back 100s on Mon/Tues then hill repeats on Sunday at 110. Something like 19k elevation for the week. I wanted to get into the 400s this week and 25k+ but it's not happening.
 
Soldato
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I've found a soft limit with my cycling fitness. Right now to get stronger I need to be training at least 90 mins per day, and I just don't have the time. I will basically never get any fitter than this unless I take time off work, or book a cycling holiday. If you're working full time, and have relationships to maintain I just don't see how you could sustain more than that over the long term.
 
Soldato
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More than 15 hours a week is pretty serious, what do your weeks look like out of interest? I tend to vary between 12-20hrs which is just about manageable around work, but think I’ve only gone over 20 on holiday.

Same here, I've been managing 14ish hours per week under lockdown as an average, about 6-8 hours during the week in the evenings and 2x4 hours at weekend, I could do more at weekends, but it's a bit boring going out on your own week after week after a while. as with OMS i'd only ever hit over 20 with a dedicated cycling week. Definitely not possible long term around work, would just burn out, although if you're not smashing yourself a few times a week it would be easier to achieve physically but for me not mentally.
 
Soldato
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I'm doing better numbers now off 9-12 hour weeks than I was off 14+ hour constant back to back weeks this time last year.....
 
Soldato
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I'm doing better numbers now off 9-12 hour weeks than I was off 14+ hour constant back to back weeks this time last year.....

Yes, this seems like a balancing act and it's difficult to get right. It depends what people want to achieve like with anything. I think somewhere between 9-12h is perhaps easier to build power but harder to loose weight. 15-20h+ and it's harder to increase power but easier to loose weight. Increasing power whilst loosing weight is a science. There's the whole mental side as well where if you set your targets high, the training in turn is harder and then it can start to feel like a job.
 
Soldato
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I've found a soft limit with my cycling fitness. Right now to get stronger I need to be training at least 90 mins per day, and I just don't have the time. I will basically never get any fitter than this unless I take time off work, or book a cycling holiday. If you're working full time, and have relationships to maintain I just don't see how you could sustain more than that over the long term.

Unless you're super human, most including myself can make decent gains following a structured workout plan like the Zwift ones using ERG mode on a turbo, doing ~5 one hour sessions a week (depending on what improvements you are looking for). Outdoors might be a bit trickier, getting to somewhere better to do intervals, away from traffic and junctions.
 
Soldato
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I've found a soft limit with my cycling fitness. Right now to get stronger I need to be training at least 90 mins per day, and I just don't have the time. I will basically never get any fitter than this unless I take time off work, or book a cycling holiday. If you're working full time, and have relationships to maintain I just don't see how you could sustain more than that over the long term.

Unless you're super human, most including myself can make decent gains following a structured workout plan like the Zwift ones using ERG mode on a turbo, doing ~5 one hour sessions a week (depending on what improvements you are looking for). Outdoors might be a bit trickier, getting to somewhere better to do intervals, away from traffic and junctions.

Id definitely agree with that, there are plenty of people doing very impressive things off not much training, it just has to be the right training.
 
Man of Honour
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Did a Tabata training session last night, but in trying to find the original intensities used just went nearly full bore on the turbo.

I lasted two intervals... First at something like 850W, then 560W, then died.

Finally found the original article which said 170% VO2max... Assuming VO2max is somewhere around FTP, that would take me to 460-500W...

Those 12 minutes (5 minute warmup, 3 minute sobbing) were horrid.
 
Soldato
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Anyone else losing a bit too much weight from all their extra cycling? While in some ways it feels great how agile I am on the bike (and I dropped everyone on the steep hill climb last weekend) I can feel that my energy reserves are starting to be limited and am starting to look a little too thin in places. :(
 
Soldato
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Unless you're super human, most including myself can make decent gains following a structured workout plan like the Zwift ones using ERG mode on a turbo, doing ~5 one hour sessions a week (depending on what improvements you are looking for). Outdoors might be a bit trickier, getting to somewhere better to do intervals, away from traffic and junctions.

Id definitely agree with that, there are plenty of people doing very impressive things off not much training, it just has to be the right training.

I agree that more effective training is better than just more training. What I meant was that assuming your training is relatively well planned, there comes a point where not having more than 60-90 mins per day sees you hit a soft limit. My training is by no means perfect (unfortunately my FTP clearly demonstrates that) so I've got some headroom on headline performance numbers. But my TSS effectively gets capped by the amount of time I have on the bike.

I should have made a distinction between performance and TSS, the latter definitely has a soft limit.

Actually, I'll add my awful numbers so they can be ripped to shreds:

1s: 1200w
15: 978w
1m: 474w
5m: 312w

H: 192cm / 6'3"
W: 73kg

Strava:

Fitness: 85
Fatigue: 108
Form: -23

And my current FTP is apparently 267w according to a ramp test but I think that's quite punchy as sweet spot training based on that FTP number is killing me at the moment.
 
Soldato
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@Murf - Nobody on this section of the forum is going to rip you to shreds man for any numbers. You're training and bettering yourself. The numbers are just numbers and take nothing away from that fact so keep doing what you're doing :)

@Trifid - Be careful here. Take this advice from the too experienced ;)
Why do you think you LOOK too thin in places? Despite the above regarding numbers, this is something to actually rely on numbers for. Relying on a perceived look in the mirror to determine anything regarding your body weight is no no.
Feeling less energy is more likely to be from increased time on the bike and not enough recovery before it is due to being too thin. So it is more so time to look at what you are putting in versus what you are burning along with recovery times and go from there. Do not convince or tell yourself you are too thin and worry about that before actually establishing that conclusion.... it's not a good path to go down!
 
Soldato
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Southampton
I agree that more effective training is better than just more training. What I meant was that assuming your training is relatively well planned, there comes a point where not having more than 60-90 mins per day sees you hit a soft limit. My training is by no means perfect (unfortunately my FTP clearly demonstrates that) so I've got some headroom on headline performance numbers. But my TSS effectively gets capped by the amount of time I have on the bike.

I should have made a distinction between performance and TSS, the latter definitely has a soft limit.

Actually, I'll add my awful numbers so they can be ripped to shreds:

1s: 1200w
15: 978w
1m: 474w
5m: 312w

H: 192cm / 6'3"
W: 73kg

Strava:

Fitness: 85
Fatigue: 108
Form: -23

And my current FTP is apparently 267w according to a ramp test but I think that's quite punchy as sweet spot training based on that FTP number is killing me at the moment.

Nothing wrong with those interval numbers, I can only dream of having sprint numbers that high, but I'd be willing to bet you could signifcantly improve your 1; 5 and probably 20min figures with the right training in your weekly time window.

The Zwift ramp test, if my legs are fresh, gives me an optimistically high FTP figure. I believe it simply gets the number from 75% of your best 60 seconds and I'd normally expect to at least start the 400W interval... But using the 95% of 20min efort method, once in March 2019 I managed 313W for an FTP estimate high of 298W. Got very close to matching it in Feb during a Zwift race at Richmond while part way through https://whatsonzwift.com/workouts/tt-tuneup/ , but I then had to scale riding right back due to extended mild COVID-19 symptoms, only been able to start doing more frequent z3+ intervals in the last few weeks.
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Feb 2006
Posts
9,581
@Trifid - Be careful here. Take this advice from the too experienced ;)
Why do you think you LOOK too thin in places? Despite the above regarding numbers, this is something to actually rely on numbers for. Relying on a perceived look in the mirror to determine anything regarding your body weight is no no.
Feeling less energy is more likely to be from increased time on the bike and not enough recovery before it is due to being too thin. So it is more so time to look at what you are putting in versus what you are burning along with recovery times and go from there. Do not convince or tell yourself you are too thin and worry about that before actually establishing that conclusion.... it's not a good path to go down!

I'm naturally very light anyway, but my BMI has dropped below 19 and I really noticed it last time it did this. Scales (however accurate they are) says body fat just below 10% now too... I feel healthier at BMI of 19.5 and 12% body fat on the scales.
 
Soldato
Joined
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18,157
Location
Hampshire
Id definitely agree with that, there are plenty of people doing very impressive things off not much training, it just has to be the right training.

Absolutely this, amazing how many people think doing hours and hours will make you definitely better, but even with only 60-90 minutes a few times a week you could get better than someone doing 15 hours a week if the time in the saddle isn't spent effectively. Although the people who seemingly do barely any riding all week and can smash it out at the weekend annoy the hell out of me. Damn natural gifted athletes :D

Anyone else losing a bit too much weight from all their extra cycling? While in some ways it feels great how agile I am on the bike (and I dropped everyone on the steep hill climb last weekend) I can feel that my energy reserves are starting to be limited and am starting to look a little too thin in places. :(

I've actually found the opposite, not from eating rubbish but having more time to do more cooking I'm trying little bits of scraps more often. Less snacks in the house, but more proper food is going in. Seems to have stablised a bit over the last week or so I think this is partially due to being a bit more sedate around the house as I'm generally sat down more with less people to wander off and talk to, but looking better even at a bigger weight due to more consistent workouts, recovery and sleep. As xdcx says the numbers matter here and it may just be you're thinning out fat wise, but doing great muscle mass wise.
 
Soldato
Joined
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Posts
9,581
I've actually found the opposite, not from eating rubbish but having more time to do more cooking I'm trying little bits of scraps more often. Less snacks in the house, but more proper food is going in. Seems to have stablised a bit over the last week or so I think this is partially due to being a bit more sedate around the house as I'm generally sat down more with less people to wander off and talk to, but looking better even at a bigger weight due to more consistent workouts, recovery and sleep. As xdcx says the numbers matter here and it may just be you're thinning out fat wise, but doing great muscle mass wise.

Thighs are looking great! I'm doing great cycling wise (speed and climbs), think I just need to find something to balance out the 1000 calories rides.
 
Soldato
Joined
23 Nov 2004
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10,646
I agree that more effective training is better than just more training. What I meant was that assuming your training is relatively well planned, there comes a point where not having more than 60-90 mins per day sees you hit a soft limit. My training is by no means perfect (unfortunately my FTP clearly demonstrates that) so I've got some headroom on headline performance numbers. But my TSS effectively gets capped by the amount of time I have on the bike.

I should have made a distinction between performance and TSS, the latter definitely has a soft limit.

Actually, I'll add my awful numbers so they can be ripped to shreds:

1s: 1200w
15: 978w
1m: 474w
5m: 312w

H: 192cm / 6'3"
W: 73kg

Strava:

Fitness: 85
Fatigue: 108
Form: -23

And my current FTP is apparently 267w according to a ramp test but I think that's quite punchy as sweet spot training based on that FTP number is killing me at the moment.

Nothing wrong with those numbers mate.

FTP isn't the be all and end all, you can go out one night fresh as **** and go crap or leave the house feeling crap but kick into gear once warmed up.

So much of riding is in the head for me and I really really need to be in the mood to hang onto a wheel that is making me hurt like mad. My mate who I ride with all the time has the same sort of numbers as me but I can out climb him even when I'm heavier than him so who knows how that works.

Depends what you want to do with your riding? Racing wise I'd be at about 4w/kg for the 20 minute mark but even then the lower category races it's more about knowing where to sit than raw horsepower as everything gets chased back. Crits are about position and recovery, like 30/30s.

I only had a power meter on in 2018 and had 326w for 20 minutes, 303w for an hour and 266w for an hour and a half. I got dropped on that ride and had to take a short cut and still ended up dropping off the group again. That was with a group of six with two of them being ex elite cat riders and one of the best TT guys in Scotland. I raced later that year and got 6th in a cat 3/4.

Only just back on something showing power but Zwift says my FTP is now 271W post corona virus.
 
Soldato
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Hereford
Less time due to having 2 screaming children every second of every day.
:p Adulting is awful.
:D
Well you did go full crazy and have a second one! How's things going with #2 and how is Rory? Proud big brother or really doesn't care/want to get involved? :cool:

We're really going through the troublesome two's at the moment but thankfully they seem to be related to hunger/tiredness so at least we can put some reasoning behind them (and work around them a little). Still pretty grim (feel so helpless) when they happen!

While we're talking training and health I've just brain dumped this here... As I've had quite a reduction in both since the weather changed. We're going through some interrupted sleep, most nights having a wake up between 1-3am and then again something at around 5am. He settles down again but with the later one we really don't and by 6.15am (at the latest) he (& us) are fully awake. His bedtime at 7.30/8pm he's sleeping enough, dropped his afternoon nap months ago and doesnt seem tired until even meal times (6pm) so about right. But our bedtime at 10.30/11 with the wakes and interruptions is slowly having more of an affect on us.

I normally dont struggle too much with lack of sleep (cycling really helps me to sleep well when I do) but some minor illnesses and the couple of hot nights seem to have had culminated into fatigue feelings I just can't seem to shake. I've decreased cycling and caffeine intake the last 2 weeks without much impact. This week we're sleeping a little earlier (9.30/10) but not much change in fatigue/drained feelings yet... I'm going to cycle more the next few days with the additional sleep and see if that helps. Just trying to find the balance point the last couple of weeks but so far drawn a blank. Much if the fitness gains I had made the previous months are now pretty much on hold/abandoned.

Id definitely agree with that, there are plenty of people doing very impressive things off not much training, it just has to be the right training.
Exactly this, but I think also having a base level of training/fitness/natural ability from something previous also has a huge impact. Those riders with it and the recent increase in 'free' time to ride just means they're doing even more impressive things than usual.

Anyone else losing a bit too much weight from all their extra cycling? While in some ways it feels great how agile I am on the bike (and I dropped everyone on the steep hill climb last weekend) I can feel that my energy reserves are starting to be limited and am starting to look a little too thin in places. :(
I did it a couple of years back, dropped weight to 72kg and it just didn't look right for me. Not light I know but with my big quads and shoulders it was for my figure/torso/neck. Many comments from friends and work colleagues as I got a bit too thin in the face and my eyes looked a bit sunken/black whenever I'd pushed myself a bit much on the bike. A kg or two more made a massive difference and I didn't feel any slower/heavier (74kg being seemingly the best summer/autumn weight for me/my frame).

@Murf - Nobody on this section of the forum is going to rip you to shreds man for any numbers. You're training and bettering yourself. The numbers are just numbers and take nothing away from that fact so keep doing what you're doing :)
Great advice and spot on with the other bit too.

With all of the data surrounding cycling it's very easy to get drawn into chasing numbers or comparing things to try and eke out every last bit of 'performance'. But there in lies much of the problem - we're generally not athletes and I'll go out on a limb and say numbers are especially 'dangerous' for riders like us here. We've generally ended up on these forums as we're mostly quite tech guys with experience of systems, processes and measurements. Which all are constantly evolving and generally increasing generation after generation. We're not that experienced in biology or sports science. We have easy access to kit and equipment that give us lots of data associated with both of those.

Absolutely this, amazing how many people think doing hours and hours will make you definitely better, but even with only 60-90 minutes a few times a week you could get better than someone doing 15 hours a week if the time in the saddle isn't spent effectively.
This. Consistency in training and riding structured sessions really do help a huge amount. I'm a poor example of this as I'm absolutely rubbish at both, but when I do I really find some quick/easy gains. Normally in repeated efforts/rides and better recovery. With my more sporadic riding I am generally still building the same TSS, but with less rides. So it's more focussed and I struggle to recover properly (due to the large spikes). :rolleyes::p
 
Soldato
Joined
29 Dec 2004
Posts
16,988
Location
Shepley
Anyone else losing a bit too much weight from all their extra cycling? While in some ways it feels great how agile I am on the bike (and I dropped everyone on the steep hill climb last weekend) I can feel that my energy reserves are starting to be limited and am starting to look a little too thin in places. :(

I'm struggling more with appetite as it's really sporadic and unpredictable. Sometimes I can be starving after a short hour session, and not hungry at all after a 3-4 hour ride. I also find the feeling of constantly shoving food into my face when I am hungry a bit tricky to deal with, but that's more complicated and goes beyond a road cycling thread. My weight is pretty consistent, but I've gained a kilo or two since last year when I was really screwing up my nutrition and think I was losing muscle mass as a result. I certainly feel more powerful now, just have to ignore the number on the scales and accept it means very little in a performance context.
 
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