BMW and M Power Owners

Soldato
Joined
22 Jun 2005
Posts
9,066
Location
Nottinghamshire
Try planting it in manual, it won't kick down unless you hold the gearstick forward (which has to be done for a second or so). In auto obviously nothing needs to be touched it will just do it when the accelerator is pressed.
In manual it would stay in the gear, if you held the left paddle and kicked down it would go to the lowest gear possible.(I think this worked in manual?)
 
Associate
Joined
2 Oct 2006
Posts
2,276
Just had my first oil and filter (inc. Micro Filter) service yesterday on the X3 - I noticed a few menu options had reset - do they upgrade SW during a service?
 

DRZ

DRZ

Soldato
Joined
2 Jun 2003
Posts
7,417
Location
In the top 1%
I think yours must have been older software or just plain broken.

On my 2012 E92 (and later with GTS software) and my 2018 M2, the DCT box is fine at low speeds.

You need to drive it slightly differently to a torque convertor auto, but I never find myself missing the ZF8 of either the X3 that shared the driveway with the M3, The M135i that preceeded the M2 or the Disco 4 that shares the driveway with the M2.

That said, I own(ed) both while they were fairly new, I don't know if the situation changes as the clutch packs wear.

mine had 18k on the clock and has been jerky ever since, and my previous wagon had 11k (and had a complete DCT rebuild under warranty) - both are crappy at low speed. Like I said, I've tried GTS, CS and custom BM3 maps, all are equally poor.

It's cool, I don't doubt your claims, stroke your car, safe int he knowledge you are one of the lucky ones ;)

I've owned three DCT cars now and all of them have been crap at low speed. Much much worse than the ZF8, of which I have owned three as well :)
 
Don
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
56,452
Location
Cornwall
from cold and at low speed mine is embarrassing bordering on dangerous as it kangaroos everywhere, it's a commonly raised issue for which I think the term crap; fits perfectly :p

That's in eco-pro (lol), comfort, sport or sport-plus also each of those modes utilising a plethroa of tuning variables (cat warming, gts roar, idle rev target etc..)
 

DRZ

DRZ

Soldato
Joined
2 Jun 2003
Posts
7,417
Location
In the top 1%
I am referring specifically to extremely low speed manoeuvring. Slow speed driving eg in a car park or whatever is fine.

Editing to add that my E92 was especially bad when in cold start enrichment, pulling out from a tight-ish space/3pt turning and then driving at 10-15mph was terrible.
 
Associate
Joined
6 Jul 2010
Posts
2,059
My DCT's behaviour doesn't change between cold and hot. Only time jerkyness is apparent is if I'm in sport or sport plus mode, and driving very slowly. Any touch on the throttle that is not continuous will accelerate and then decelerate the car quickly, but that is due to being in sport mode resulting in high revs and engine braking is quite high.
 
Soldato
Joined
5 Jan 2003
Posts
3,517
Location
Somewhere in the middle
My DCT's behaviour doesn't change between cold and hot. Only time jerkyness is apparent is if I'm in sport or sport plus mode, and driving very slowly. Any touch on the throttle that is not continuous will accelerate and then decelerate the car quickly, but that is due to being in sport mode resulting in high revs and engine braking is quite high.
This ...... don't recognise any of the other issues..... clearly I bought a good old'n :)
 

DRZ

DRZ

Soldato
Joined
2 Jun 2003
Posts
7,417
Location
In the top 1%
Try and move your car forward exactly 6" in a ZF8 car and in a DCT car and the difference is huge. I don't think it is likely that my Z4 35i, E92 M3 and F87 M2 are all "bad" and my 520d/535d/640d GC were all "good". It is just the nature of the DCT gearbox that low speed precision isn't a strong point.
 
Associate
Joined
6 Jul 2010
Posts
2,059
Try and move your car forward exactly 6" in a ZF8 car and in a DCT car and the difference is huge. I don't think it is likely that my Z4 35i, E92 M3 and F87 M2 are all "bad" and my 520d/535d/640d GC were all "good". It is just the nature of the DCT gearbox that low speed precision isn't a strong point.

I only had a single DCT car (Z4 35i). I have driven the ZF in an X4M and the new Z4 20i when I had them as courtesy cars. The only difference the was prominent was the fact that the gearing resulting in low rpm at 70mph,whereas with mine its at 3000 rpm, so bit more engine noise intrusion. I haven't had any issues with either.

The only issues I had were with a Mini One (current gen) that I believe was a ZF gearbox, which felt very jerky and non responsive, and also experienced jerkyness with single clutch autos when looking to buy my first automatic.

Apart from that, not sure what to tell you.
 
Caporegime
Joined
21 Oct 2002
Posts
26,251
Location
Here
I find my manual really crap. Am I supposed to use the clutch pedal ?

maybe it’s the subconscious knowledge of how dct works that meant so don’t notice it. Like trying to accelerate when you know the box has already expected you to stop and it’s gone into neutral...

If you did the same in a manual as you were coming to a stop then suddenly decided to boot it by smashing it into first and dropping the clutch you would get similar jerkyness.

I had a ZF auto as my other car too and definitely not crap. I imagine SMG is ‘crap’

anyway to the original question. This is why you need to test drive one
 

DRZ

DRZ

Soldato
Joined
2 Jun 2003
Posts
7,417
Location
In the top 1%
I find my manual really crap. Am I supposed to use the clutch pedal ?

Trying to imply that the people who notice that DCT is comparatively poor at slow speed (eg parking) movement don't know how to operate the car is ludicrous and just makes you come across as a total ****.

If you only ever drive the car on and off a driveway and into and out of car parking spaces where low precision is fine, I can see how you wouldn't really notice. However, tighter situations like parallel parking day in day out into spaces barely longer than the car really tests the slow speed "kindness" of the gearbox. Manual gearboxes are the best for these situations, then regular autos like the ZF8 and then DCT gearboxes after that. I don't see the point trying to argue it any further though - I have had three DCT cars now, all of them behave the exact same way in these scenarios and many other people have the exact same experience.
 
Caporegime
Joined
21 Oct 2002
Posts
26,251
Location
Here
They aren’t crap though. How can they be jerky due to gearbox alone without any driver factor involved.
I’m not saying they don’t know how to operate it but I know it can be jerky when other people drive and aren’t used to the neutral slowing to roundabouts then deciding to go. You learn to drive around that one.
 
Don
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
56,452
Location
Cornwall
I'll take a video of me driving out from my parking spot, no waiting for reverse gear, no WOT runs, just a 3-4mph manoeuvre. I promise you, it's utterly crap. Sure after a while it settles down, but each and every time I initially drive my car it jerks around like a bucking bronco, as did my 35is but the PDK or the audi dual clutch didnt have any of those issues so it can't just be me being Luddite, or can it? :p
 
Don
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
56,452
Location
Cornwall
The Audi dsg is smoother imo. I put that on a BMW group page and it did not go down well... :o

I'll call a spade a spade, just because you sink a load of cash into a marque doesn't mean you have to support it to the point of biting off you own nose :p I said the same thing about the quite frankly laughable F1 gearbox in my 360, that met with a load of abuse on PH, "howa dare youa, the ferarri isa thea besta thinga evera" (try and read it in a stupid itanlian accent)
 

DRZ

DRZ

Soldato
Joined
2 Jun 2003
Posts
7,417
Location
In the top 1%
They aren’t crap though. How can they be jerky due to gearbox alone without any driver factor involved.
I’m not saying they don’t know how to operate it but I know it can be jerky when other people drive and aren’t used to the neutral slowing to roundabouts then deciding to go. You learn to drive around that one.

But I'm not talking about roundabouts or anything like that - have a scroll back and actually read. I've been talking about low speed precision, something that the DCT box is bad at.

For the hard of reading/thinking: From a complete stop, try to move a DCT car forward six inches (as if there was a parked car in front of you) as smoothly as you could with a ZF8.

Hint: It isn't as smooth.

You can't roll slightly off the brake and have the TC creep nudge you forward. You must come off the brake and ever-so-gently apply the throttle, at which point the clutch will engage and you'll move forward. Sometimes that's slow-ish, sometimes that's surprisingly violent (in the context of not hitting a parked car in front of you). Either way, it isn't as smooth as a regular auto or a manual car.
 
Back
Top Bottom