Basic Home Networking Advice

[TerrierHTFC]

Yeah yeah I know theres loads of threads like this but feel like I best ask my own question for peace of mind.

So, looks like we are finally getting FTTP after being stuck on 2mbps ADSL and/or unreliable mobile 4g through Three. We bought this (newbuild) house in Nov 16 so its been a tough old wait.

Annoyingly, the builders had the BT master socket fitted into the kitchen, where its neither use nor ornament really and would also create a bit of an unsightly mess with the modem/battery backup they install on the internal wall for FTTP. There's 2 key places in my house where I absolutely want an available Ethernet connection.

1) Upstairs man cave where the PC/PlayStation are.
2) Living room where Main TV/Sky/BR player are.

I then have other TV's/IOT's dotted around the house but happy for all them to be on wifi. I may look into a mesh setup as well depending on Wifi strength.

So my current thinking is this and just wanted to run it past folk first...

Have the master socket moved into the living room where the TV etc is (I know an openreach engineer who can do this for beers rather than £130). The entry point here would be about 10 yards further down the same external wall as the master socket is currently located. I can then plug the TV/Sky/BR directly into the router (or plug in a cheap switch if I need more connections).

Then run some external cat6 back outside (from where the router is), round the back of the house and up the other side, to the first floor where the PC and PlayStation are. Cheap switch, plug both in, hey presto.

Does this seem to make sense or is there a better way? I don't want to do it internally by lifting floorboards as it wouldn't be worth the grief I'd get from the Mrs. Would it be worth running two cables or will one to a switch suffice? And am I better off terminating each end in and out of the house to some sort of network wall plate?

Help appreciated.

 

[jsmoke]

Unless you go powerline setup then not much choice. It's really a case of cosmetics now.

 

[TerrierHTFC]

Unless you go powerline setup then not much choice. It's really a case of cosmetics now.

I've had powerline adapters in the past and they were fine when I had 38mbps FTTC but they aren't up to the task of shifting 300mbps, especially from one side of the house to the other, so I'm ruling them out.

 

[Quartz]

Running cables outside the house and through the walls is a better plan than wifi or powerline. You might consider putting the master socket in a cuboard and creating a patch panel. Just have a switch by the TV.

 

[jsmoke]

I've had powerline adapters in the past and they were fine when I had 38mbps FTTC but they aren't up to the task of shifting 300mbps, especially from one side of the house to the other, so I'm ruling them out.

Well then then either get a second socket upstairs, lay a cable inside house or one outside.

 

[Avalon]

Unless you go powerline setup then not much choice. It's really a case of cosmetics now.

Most people make it clear when they’re joking, as obviously no sane person would suggest powerline for anything approaching FTTP, especially when a new wiring install will require it to jump two MCB’s to get to upstairs.

 

[apachegoose]

FTTP has no connection at all to the copper master socket, the fibre ONT does not have to be near the master socket and can be placed anywhere. They advise you to put the ONT in a place that is easily accessible but beyond that it can go anywhere. The fibre network and the copper network are 2 completely separate things, e.g. the fibre goes straight to an exchange and ignores the street cabinets etc.

For FTTP only BT is likely to give an option to use the old Copper network for landline calls, TalkTalk and SKY both are starting to move new customers over to their VOIP system so its likely they are to do the same with FTTP customers when they start selling them in the next few weeks given it costs them £2 a month more to Openreach to use the copper line in connection with a FTTP connection. Or in other words once you get FTTP your copper line will be redundant unless you go with BT retail.

 

[TerrierHTFC]

FTTP has no connection at all to the copper master socket, the fibre ONT does not have to be near the master socket and can be placed anywhere. They advise you to put the ONT in a place that is easily accessible but beyond that it can go anywhere. The fibre network and the copper network are 2 completely separate things, e.g. the fibre goes straight to an exchange and ignores the street cabinets etc.

For FTTP only BT is likely to give an option to use the old Copper network for landline calls, TalkTalk and SKY both are starting to move new customers over to their VOIP system so its likely they are to do the same with FTTP customers when they start selling them in the next few weeks given it costs them £2 a month more to Openreach to use the copper line in connection with a FTTP connection. Or in other words once you get FTTP your copper line will be redundant unless you go with BT retail.

Didn't realise that, cheers.

Don't have a landline phone so not really fussed about that side of things at all.

 

[TerrierHTFC]

Digging this back up as the FTTP order is now in place.

I've done a crap drawing of what's in my head.

So, fibre to come in down the side of the house and ONT and router to go where the main TV/Sky/BR etc is on that side wall. This is an easy install for Openreach.

Then, run 3 ethernet cables back outside:

- 1 circa 5m run back outside down the side of the house and into the kitchen where there is a TV and Sky Q mini box.
- 1 circa 8m run back outside and up the side wall to the main bedroom where there is another tv and sky q mini combo.
- 1 run (yet to calc the length but id guess about 40m) up the side, round the eaves and back down the other side to the office where the pc and PS4 are.

I hope I am ok linking this as its not really anything OCUK sell, the plan is this cable https://www.cablemonkey.co.uk/cat6-cable/22-excel-cat6-utp-external-cable-ldpe-outer-sheath.html

Can this be terminated at each end into one of these? https://www.cablemonkey.co.uk/cat6-modules-outlets/41869-cat6-utp-rj45-modules-with-faceplate.html

I can then plug a gigabit switch in at each point, I already have a couple.

Does this make sense or am I missing things? Can it be done better/simpler? I plan on getting our trusted electrician to quote on the work.

 

[apachegoose]

Yes that makes sense.

One tip if you have a good electrician* do it then get them to install it in the existing holes for the sat cables, then add a duel satellite faceplate module as well as the cat 6 module. Both of those take up half a slot each so only needs 1 standard faceplate / backbox. This will look neater both inside and out as well as limiting the amount of holes in your walls.

You will need sat cables to go from the wall to your sat boxes as well assuming your existing sat cables aren't already terminated at the wall.

Many electricians won't touch this btw as they don't have the tools to test the cables.

 

[TerrierHTFC]

Yes that makes sense.

One tip if you have a good electrician* do it then get them to install it in the existing holes for the sat cables, then add a duel satellite faceplate module as well as the cat 6 module. Both of those take up half a slot each so only needs 1 standard faceplate / backbox. This will look neater both inside and out as well as limiting the amount of holes in your walls.

You will need sat cables to go from the wall to your sat boxes as well assuming your existing sat cables aren't already terminated at the wall.

Many electricians won't touch this btw as they don't have the tools to test the cables.

I like that idea. Is the existing hole that's drilled for the satellite cable likely to be wide enough to house more though?

No asked the electrician yet but it does mention networking on her website.

 

[apachegoose]

I like that idea. Is the existing hole that's drilled for the satellite cable likely to be wide enough to house more though?

No asked the electrician yet but it does mention networking on her website.

Also look at Satellite installers, some of them also do CCTV installs so have the kit and experience. As to the holes they might need expanding a bit, might be big enough. Speak to the professionals when you get the quote(s).

 

[Rainmaker]

If you're getting a professional install for the Ethernet runs, and you're in a new build house, why not have everything in the loft and have drops in the cavities to wall plates in each room? It's a lot tidier than wrapping cat6 round the whole house externally. Did the developer install cable trunking in the walls, which would make pulls a lot easier? Worth checking.

 

[TerrierHTFC]

If you're getting a professional install for the Ethernet runs, and you're in a new build house, why not have everything in the loft and have drops in the cavities to wall plates in each room? It's a lot tidier than wrapping cat6 round the whole house externally. Did the developer install cable trunking in the walls, which would make pulls a lot easier? Worth checking.

We don’t have a loft, the top floor is the main bedroom. I know my crap drawing probably suggested otherwise.

 

[spoffle]

We don’t have a loft, the top floor is the main bedroom. I know my crap drawing probably suggested otherwise.

Do you not have any sort of hatch in your ceiling on the top floor?

 

[TerrierHTFC]

Do you not have any sort of hatch in your ceiling on the top floor?

No, literally the entire top floor in what is the roof space is bedroom and en-suite. Other half will have a fit if floorboards start getting lifted etc.

We bought the house new but it was already built, wish we'd found it earlier and I'd have had the builders put network points in.

 

[Semple]

Send her away for a few days as a "treat", and then use that to your advantage to get the floorboards up and lay some cabling, and then back down. She'll never know. Unfortunately woman don't seem to realise that to do a proper job sometimes, things have to get a bit messy. I remember mine going ape when i was doing a load of a DIY in our new house.

Another tip if you are running cables externally, hide them behind a downpipe. Nothing looks worse than having a load of cables that are just in the middle of the outside of the house.

 

[TerrierHTFC]

Send her away for a few days as a "treat", and then use that to your advantage to get the floorboards up and lay some cabling, and then back down. She'll never know. Unfortunately woman don't seem to realise that to do a proper job sometimes, things have to get a bit messy. I remember mine going ape when i was doing a load of a DIY in our new house.

Another tip if you are running cables externally, hide them behind a downpipe. Nothing looks worse than having a load of cables that are just in the middle of the outside of the house.

The way the house is angled the side of the house with most of the cabling potentially on is completely invisible to anyone. Its basically a narrow 3 foot or so passage between that and the fence, covered by shrubs and then next door so that's good. No way would I run anything down the front or back.

I CBA with the hassle of the woman. You know how it is, sometimes better to pick your battles. She'd have us on gigabit broadband then wifi everything

 

[TerrierHTFC]

FTTH installed now, so looking to get this sorted, had our electrician quote on the work

Labour seems a ridiculous to me. I also asked for Cat6

 

[apachegoose]

Its 2 hours work at most for anyone who knows there stuff, and while it is a 2 man job due to the ladder there is no way they should be charging over £200 an hour. If you know anyone with the tools its fairly straightforward to do if its just a standard brick house, biggest issue will be the ladder but tbh if you own a property you really should own a ladder capable of getting up to all levels.

I would honestly check to see if there is anyway that you can run the cable internally and then do it yourself. If not then if your confident enough on a ladder, buy a good modern ladder or else get more quotes - try CCTV installers.