My Phanteks case fan has started to fail! Spec me the quietest 140mm fans?

[doyll]

Enermax had once some fans with auto-restart function.

Capacitors can't store AC and aren't used for some "startup extra power".
(though variable frequency drives can add capacitance to provide some start up current, but they usually also have soft start)

Single phase AC motors often use capacitor to create phase shift for secondary winding, which is needed to create rotating magnetic field to get rotor moving.
With just single winding, magnetic field would be just switching polarity.
Hence rotor might not start moving at all, or even to wrong direction.
Three phase AC gives that rotating magnetic field naturally.

Also capacitors can be used for power factor correction.
While households are usually charged only for consumed real power, anything lot consuming like industry has to pay for full apparent power and hence reactive power from inductances matters.
And you cancel current component from inductance by adding capacitance in parallel with load.

I don't know what you are getting at.

Enermax having had fans with auto-restart function has nothing to do with anything I've posted.

AC power, charging capacitors really it makes no difference. Nor does it matter that caps are used to help get motor spinning without power source overloading.

This is computer forum so let's keep it about computer fans. Sorry if I lead use off topic.

Only reason I posted about startup load and running load is computer fans generally only give running load rating, not the many times more power the draw starting up or impeller is stopped.

Reality is our fan motors pull several time if not many times more power starting than they do running.

In all the times I've heard of members loosing fan headers, I can't think of one that happened once fans were up to speed. They all say it either happened at startup / noticed fans were not running after startup. They had fans cooling when they shutdown system. But didn't have them when they next started system. Always seems fans headers went out when fans were starting to spin and drawing the several times more power then they do once they get going.

 

[doyll]

Wow haters just gotta hate

Arctic clearly state that up to 5 fans can be supported on a single 1A fan header, 3 fans is never going to be an issue.
"We recommend not to more than 5 fans as some motherboards may only deliver 1.0A per fan header. Please consult your motherboard specification."


Arctic was established in 2001
BeQuiet was established in 2002
Noctua was established in 2005
Phanteks was established in 2007

Arctic is the longest established company in this list, with much more experience than the likes of Phanteks. In a cuthroat market if their products and / or waranty's were no good they would not still be in this list yet alone leading it with their products. Why even cast doubt on their warranties without any kind of reason

I've seen companies say similar things before and found them to be false. I would much rather tell people to limit the number of fans on fan header than say 5 and later find out they burned it out. Arctic does not publish startup load like industrial fan companies do. They only publish running load. Companies that publish both show startup load is 3-5 times higher load than startup.

How long a company has been in in business doesn't automatically translate into them being good, back or just okay.

 

[Tetras]

Wow haters just gotta hate

Arctic clearly state that up to 5 fans can be supported on a single 1A fan header, 3 fans is never going to be an issue.
"We recommend not to more than 5 fans as some motherboards may only deliver 1.0A per fan header. Please consult your motherboard specification."

Tbh it's one of those things like pressing the "safely remove hardware" button before yanking out ya USB stick. I don't put ANY fans on my motherboard headers cos I'd rather the power went through the PSU. I'm pretty sure mobo makers are aware of how mega-loaded these headers get nowadays, with gaming cases and RGB fans, so they can probably pull a lot more power than you'd think, it's just safer to be cautious when the headers are available.

 

[mrk]

What have I started!

For reference on startup etc, I virtually never shut this PC down. Only when a driver or Windows update is installed and a restart is needed. Otherwise the system stays on 24/7 really so any concern for fan header surge has never really crossed my mind.

 

[PieEater]

Sadly there are some people who are not comfortable with other people recommending products that are out of their comfort zones and they will try to question these recommendations using whatever they can grab onto going well over the scrutiny they will ever subject their own recommendations to. Unfortunately this isn't ultimately helpful to the person asking for advice.

Everybody here has a level of experience and expertise that we are willing to share, but at the end of the day it is all subjective as we can only speak from our own limited knowledge base. If we could only acknowledge each others experience as being equally valuable rather than seek to detract from what other people are saying I think the experience of posters would be much better.

I was really pleased that after being steered towards some good choices you had made a decision based on your own research you were happy with and was then really upset for you to have someone rain on your parade totally without merit or reason. I can't see how this was at all helpful or added anything valuable.

 

[Ross Thomson]

it's not really a surprise though is it. Thankfully I've blocked all these people. can't be arsed with their nonsense any more.

The arctic fans are cheap, quiet and powerful with no RGB. Why would anyone hate on them

Wow haters just gotta hate

 

[mrk]

It's all cool! I got the gist of what everyone was saying and normally I'd not need to post a spec me as I'd know what I needed but this time round having tried expensive fans in the past and it being years since I last bought fans I figured maybe the field has changed and it's best to ask here

I'd have never found the Arctic by myself though as I'd have seen the price and disregarded them as cheap fans of low quality but then weeks later might have come across a review showing how good they are then kicking myself lol.

Either way everything said had been considered and a choice was then made based on a few factors so we got to a decent conclusion I reckon!

Just now have to wait a couple weeks for delivery

 

[maj]

To get this thread back on track somewhat I have 3 x Arctic F series. Did I buy wrong ones? Their own marketing says F are better as case fans and P are better for radiators.

 

[Armageus]

To get this thread back on track somewhat I have 3 x Arctic F series. Did I buy wrong ones? Their own marketing says F are better as case fans and P are better for radiators.

Personally I would have bought the P series, but the whole case vs radiator fan is a bit of a misnomer. "Radiator" or pressure optimised fans are designed to blow through obstructions (i.e. radiators), but most cases will have some form of obstruction anyway.

The F series don't list a figure for static pressure, whereas the P series do (and it is a fairly decent figure compared to a lot of fans)

The Arctic F series they only have a 6 year warranty vs the 10 of the P, so possibly a sign of the build quality/reliability.

 

[PieEater]

Personally I would have bought the P series, but the whole case vs radiator fan is a bit of a misnomer. "Radiator" or pressure optimised fans are designed to blow through obstructions (i.e. radiators), but most cases will have some form of obstruction anyway.

The F series don't list a figure for static pressure, whereas the P series do (and it is a fairly decent figure compared to a lot of fans)

The Arctic F series they only have a 6 year warranty vs the 10 of the P, so possibly a sign of the build quality/reliability.

+1

 

[Ross Thomson]

Yes you bought the wrong ones.

 

[Relentless81]

First hand experience here -

I tried to replace my arctic P14 with noctua nf-15, sent them back as they were much louder

Tried again with Bequiet silent wings 3, sent them back as although they were very slightly quieter they didn't move as much air

My P14's have been back in my Meshify C ever since and from now on I'll be using them, there is simply no point in buying anything else

 

[doyll]

To get this thread back on track somewhat I have 3 x Arctic F series. Did I buy wrong ones? Their own marketing says F are better as case fans and P are better for radiators.

There is not such thing as "airflow fnas" or "pressure fans" Both have airflow and pressure ratings. What makes air flow is creating higher pressure air. Higher pressure air move into lower pressure air creating airflow. Arctic F have lower static pressure rating than Arctic P. Marketing is often not the truth or accurate. Marketing is all about convincing people to buy their product over another. Truth and facts only get in the way of many marketing stratagies. Corsiar said to mount their CLC radiators as intake when reality it's better to have them as exhasut so case air stays cooler. but mounting radiator as intake means it's getting coolest possible air so CPU (or GPU it's cooling has lower temps. Problem is most everything else runs hotter becuase case airflow is being warmed by heat coming off of radiator, especially when CPU is under heavy load.

Mohterboard manufacturers sometimes list the amp rating of fan headers labeled for pump. I can't remember any giving amp rating of all fan headers.

First hand experience here -

I tried to replace my arctic P14 with noctua nf-15, sent them back as they were much louder

Tried again with Bequiet silent wings 3, sent them back as although they were very slightly quieter they didn't move as much air

My P14's have been back in my Meshify C ever since and from now on I'll be using them, there is simply no point in buying anything else

Arctic P seem to be decent fans considering their price. Noctua are not a quiet fan, but be quiet Silent Wings 3 are pretty much the best. My guess is you got the 1000rpm models, not the 1600rpm high speed ones. Arctic P14 are 1700rpm. The faster most fans spin the more air they flow, so of course if you were running boht at full speed to check airflow SW3 at 1000rpm or even 1600rpm would be quieter with less airflwo than P14 at 1700rpm

Data is often manipulated to show things that are not at all truthful.



Some people don't what to know the truth or look at facts supporting the truth. That's their choice. I want to know the truth and see factual data to support it.

Example of how marketing is not truthful. Arctic website says
"Arctic P-fans - Ideal for heatsinks

In internal tests we measured increased static pressure up to to 33 % for the P-fans compared to the F-fans. With the P-fans, a higher level of cooling is achieved, especially with increased air resistance (on radiators, heatsinks, or close meshed fan grilles on housings). Fans of the P-family are therefore particularly suitable for use on heatsinks."​

"Arctic F-fan - high airflow

The F-Series fans, in contrast, are optimized for high airflow and, in cases of low air resistance, transport a large amount of air. They are thus especially ideal as case fans.
The operating noise of the F-fans is very similar to White Noise, which is generally perceived as a neutral and unobtrusive background noise."​

There is a huge difference betwen the resistance of a raidator and the resistance of an air cooler. But even a think radiator is about the same or less resistance than many case front grill and fitlers are. Case front grill and filter create about twice as much resiistance, maybe more than air coolers' 4-8x 6mm heatpipes and 40-50x 0.3mm thick fins.

Siverstone did a study of grills patterns and their resistance to airflow. As shown in link below even a round wire grill lowers airflow about 29%, and a grill with small round holes in case metal restrict 71% compared to not grill at all.
https://www.silverstonetek.com/techtalk_cont.php?tid=wh_chessis&area=usa
https://www.silverstonetek.com/techtalk_cont.php?tid=wh_chessis&area=usa

 

[Relentless81]

There is not such thing as "airflow fnas" or "pressure fans" Both have airflow and pressure ratings. What makes air flow is creating higher pressure air. Higher pressure air move into lower pressure air creating airflow. Arctic F have lower static pressure rating than Arctic P. Marketing is often not the truth or accurate. Marketing is all about convincing people to buy their product over another. Truth and facts only get in the way of many marketing stratagies. Corsiar said to mount their CLC radiators as intake when reality it's better to have them as exhasut so case air stays cooler. but mounting radiator as intake means it's getting coolest possible air so CPU (or GPU it's cooling has lower temps. Problem is most everything else runs hotter becuase case airflow is being warmed by heat coming off of radiator, especially when CPU is under heavy load.

Mohterboard manufacturers sometimes list the amp rating of fan headers labeled for pump. I can't remember any giving amp rating of all fan headers.


Arctic P seem to be decent fans considering their price. Noctua are not a quiet fan, but be quiet Silent Wings 3 are pretty much the best. My guess is you got the 1000rpm models, not the 1600rpm high speed ones. Arctic P14 are 1700rpm. The faster most fans spin the more air they flow, so of course if you were running boht at full speed to check airflow SW3 at 1000rpm or even 1600rpm would be quieter with less airflwo than P14 at 1700rpm

Data is often manipulated to show things that are not at all truthful.



Some people don't what to know the truth or look at facts supporting the truth. That's their choice. I want to know the truth and see factual data to support it.

Example of how marketing is not truthful. Arctic website says
"Arctic P-fans - Ideal for heatsinks

In internal tests we measured increased static pressure up to to 33 % for the P-fans compared to the F-fans. With the P-fans, a higher level of cooling is achieved, especially with increased air resistance (on radiators, heatsinks, or close meshed fan grilles on housings). Fans of the P-family are therefore particularly suitable for use on heatsinks."​

"Arctic F-fan - high airflow

The F-Series fans, in contrast, are optimized for high airflow and, in cases of low air resistance, transport a large amount of air. They are thus especially ideal as case fans.
The operating noise of the F-fans is very similar to White Noise, which is generally perceived as a neutral and unobtrusive background noise."​

There is a huge difference betwen the resistance of a raidator and the resistance of an air cooler. But even a think radiator is about the same or less resistance than many case front grill and fitlers are. Case front grill and filter create about twice as much resiistance, maybe more than air coolers' 4-8x 6mm heatpipes and 40-50x 0.3mm thick fins.

Siverstone did a study of grills patterns and their resistance to airflow. As shown in link below even a round wire grill lowers airflow about 29%, and a grill with small round holes in case metal restrict 71% compared to not grill at all.
https://www.silverstonetek.com/techtalk_cont.php?tid=wh_chessis&area=usa
https://www.silverstonetek.com/techtalk_cont.php?tid=wh_chessis&area=usa

They were the High Speed models, 100% certain of that

They couldn't pull air as well as the arctic through the front intake of my Meshify C but the arctics running at around 80% I could feel the air being sucked in

Make of that what you will because I'm not debating it any further than that, I went through the hassle of returning them for a reason and that's because I prefer the P14's for price/performance

Your mileage may vary

 

[Ross Thomson]

edit answer above

 

[doyll]

They were the High Speed models, 100% certain of that

They couldn't pull air as well as the arctic through the front intake of my Meshify C but the arctics running at around 80% I could feel the air being sucked in

Make of that what you will because I'm not debating it any further than that, I went through the hassle of returning them for a reason and that's because I prefer the P14's for price/performance

Your mileage may vary

Thanks! You have proven that for you they are work fine.

Please let us know if /when they start going bad and how easy / hard it is to get warranty replacements. If they are still running in 2 or 3 years with no problems let us know that too. They we will have an idea of how good / bad they really are.

Sorry I'm not all lovey-dovey about these fans, but I've seen others (EK Vadars for example) that got rave reviews and most buyers loved them, but not any more. Hope these Arctic P fans don't turn out the same but I'm not recommending them until I know for sure they will last and are good. So far I'm seeing about 50/50 love/dislike for them.

 

[Relentless81]

Thanks! You have proven that for you they are work fine.

Please let us know if /when they start going bad and how easy / hard it is to get warranty replacements. If they are still running in 2 or 3 years with no problems let us know that too. They we will have an idea of how good / bad they really are.

Sorry I'm not all lovey-dovey about these fans, but I've seen others (EK Vadars for example) that got rave reviews and most buyers loved them, but not any more. Hope these Arctic P fans don't turn out the same but I'm not recommending them until I know for sure they will last and are good. So far I'm seeing about 50/50 love/dislike for them.

My current build has had them installed for about 16 months now 2 X P14 intakes and 1 X P12 exhaust

This build is going to my brother soon Inc the fans so I'll know how long they last but no issues so far, my next build I'll be buying the same fans more than likely

 

[doyll]

My current build has had them installed for about 16 months now 2 X P14 intakes and 1 X P12 exhaust

This build is going to my brother soon Inc the fans so I'll know how long they last but no issues so far, my next build I'll be buying the same fans more than likely

Thanks for the input.
Members like you posting how something is working and how long they've had them is how we learn which products are good and which are bad.

Did some searching and it looks like Arctic announed P series fans about 24 Oct 2018, so they have been around for about 18 months now. While not many have gone bad I have seen a few people posting about bearing noise and needing to replace but so far none have said they got warranty replacements.

If anyone has on fail please let us know how good their warrantee is.

 

[VaderDSL]

Thanks for the input.
Members like you posting how something is working and how long they've had them is how we learn which products are good and which are bad.

As much as it might not end up being useful, a spreadsheet with the fans we use, being members of a computer forum, how long we have had them, what case they used in, or radiators, heatsinks used on, and if they had any failures and how RMA was, might yield some interesting data. But would take years to yield anything interesting I guess.

 

[mrk]

Fans arrived today, value packaging indeed, 5 fans, a bunch of screws all in one brown little box No need for fancy packaging anyway.

Quality seems fine, better feel than the Nanoxia ones anyway which were much more expensive.

I chose not to daisy chain them as every fan header on my mobo is 4 PIN anyway and I have them available right by the fan locations so a no brainer really and the BIOS is still set to the silent smart fan profile for a 4 step ramp up based on various system temps. The CPU fan header is set to 100% though as I am letting the H115i manage both the PST fan speeds attached to the radiator. By default it's also running them in silent it seems which is nice.

Before > After:

Note that 1 fan is missing in the before screenshot as I disconnected the rattling Phanteks one which made zero difference to normal running temps so this can be ignored.

With the BIOS fan profile set to normal the CPU temp drops to around 33 max normal running and fluctuating with various loads.

The noise difference is evident. I can now hear my 2 4TB HDDs spinning over the fans lol.


Very impressed, cheers!