Possible new tax for over-40s to pay for social care

[Devilman]

My parents could barely afford heating. Many people of their generation were in abject poverty. When I was a kid I had one bath a week. Today's generation is not as poor as many think.

And how were they doing by the end of things? Lemme take a guess...

They probably owned their own home.

They also probably got a full state pension for their whole retirement.

They probably owned their own car.


Guess which 2 of those most young people will most likely never achieve, because they do not even remotely have the same opportunities that their parents and grandparents benefited from?

 

[Stretch]

LOL, true.

But there is a law of untintended consequences. Take too much tax from me and I will have to revert to NHS care and state education for my kids. That's an overall net cost to the tax payer.

Ah yes, the old boomers are too economically important to tax excuse.

 

[Devilman]

So you tar a whole generation because of your belief that some people are priviledged?

Isn't a persons age one definition of an immutable charataristic?

When the actions of the majority of an entire generation have resulted in where we are now, yes, I absolutely do.

Just the same as if the majority of lions will eat a person, It is fair to say "all lions are maneaters". Sure you might find the odd one raised in a sanctuary that doesn't - but that is not justification to try and re-write the truth about the majority there-in.

 

[Rroff]

Ah yes, the old boomers are too economically important to tax excuse.

There is some truth unfortunately though - for all their relative privileged position in too many cases that doesn't translate into something that is both easily recouped (liquidity) or can be taken without consequences further down. In some cases for instance the cost of freeing up some will incur a much bigger cost to do so with unintended consequences.

 

[Hades]

And how were they doing by the end of things? Lemme take a guess...

They probably owned their own home.

They also probably got a full state pension for their whole retirement.

They probably owned their own car.


Guess which 2 of those most young people will most likely never achieve, because they do not even remotely have the same opportunities that their parents and grandparents benefited from?

Yes they did. My father worked his way up from being a lorry driver in the 1960's to a policemand in the 1970's. He spent countless hours studying for the exams needed. When he went for a promotion to seargent he spent months in the spare room revising and being tested by my mum. My brother and I were not allowed in the room. He worked late shift so I don't think I saw himn for weeks on end.

My mum then went to work to help pay the mortgage because they were struggling (at a time when most women didn't work). She was a lollipop lady to start with but also worked as a cleaner and then in a funeral directors. At one point she had a 2.5 hour commute each way (so 5 hours per day) to get to work. She would get up at 5am every day for years to get to work. She did whatever was necesary to keep the roof over our heads.

Yes they improved their life through sheer hard work. They didn't get to live much retirement. My father died at 60yrs old before state retirement. So no he didn't get much (any) of that state retirement.

I remember the car they owned used to break down repeatedly. They even had to borrow a friends car to take us on holiday to Cornwall (never went abroad for family holidays - they couldnt afford it **)



** the exception to going abroad was to Germany on a Police Exchange trip as part of the post war effort to unify the UK and Germany - most people nowadays don't know of this effort where UK and German police families stayed at each others houses to try to promote post war peace)

 

[Stretch]

There is some truth unfortunately though - for all their relative privileged position in too many cases that doesn't translate into something that is both easily recouped (liquidity) or can be taken without consequences further down. In some cases for instance the cost of freeing up some will incur a much bigger cost to do so with unintended consequences.

Lots could be done, and indeed has been attempted, but proved politically unpopular.

 

[Hades]

When the actions of the majority of an entire generation have resulted in where we are now, yes, I absolutely do.

Such prejudice to tar others with the same brush. Maybe you should try to be more tolerant.

 

[Mr Badger]

Yes they did. My father worked his way up from being a lorry driver in the 1960's to a policemand in the 1970's. He spent countless hours studying for the exams needed. When he went for a promotion to seargent he spent months in the spare room revising and being tested by my mum. My brother and I were not allowed in the room. He worked late shift so I don't think I saw himn for weeks on end.

My mum then went to work to help pay the mortgage because they were struggling (at a time when most women didn't work). She was a lollipop lady to start with but also worked as a cleaner and then in a funeral directors. At one point she had a 2.5 hour commute each way (so 5 hours per day) to get to work. She would get up at 5am every day for years to get to work. She did whatever was necesary to keep the roof over our heads.

Yes they improved their life through sheer hard work. They didn't get to live much retirement. My father died at 60yrs old before state retirement. So no he didn't get much (any) of that state retirement.

I remember the car they owned used to break down repeatedly. They even had to borrow a friends car to take us on holiday to Cornwall (never went abroad for family holidays - they couldnt afford it **)



** the exception to going abroad was to Germany on a Police Exchange trip as part of the post war effort to unify the UK and Germany - most people nowadays don't know of this effort where UK and German police families stayed at each others houses to try to promote post war peace)

I wouldn't suggest for a moment that we should go back to a time when women were expected to leave work and become a housewife when they got married. However, the fact that this was normal and that blokes who did basic labouring jobs, operated a machine in factory, pushed a trolley of post around the office, cleaned toilets or whatever could afford to buy a house and raise a family on their own salary shows just how far things have shifted. Doubtless they didn't have a luxurious lifestyle, but they weren't trapped by having to spend nearly all of their earnings on rent and they did have the prospect of retiring with a pension.

 

[Devilman]

Such prejudice to tar others with the same brush. Maybe you should try to be more tolerant.

Maybe you should try to be more considerate of those not as fortunate as yours and your parents generation?

Maybe you should try and not be so arrogant to think that you simply "worked harder" for it than people do now days?

Maybe you should try and see things from a point of view other than your own privileged position?

But then... Boomers never do give a **** about anyone but themselves, so why would you?

 

[Mr Badger]

Such prejudice to tar others with the same brush. Maybe you should try to be more tolerant.

Try experiencing lectures from people that bought their house for five pence* back in the sixties who did a basic job at a company for 40 years and left with a final salary pension that is beyond the dreams of people entering the workplace today. Apparently people saddled by debt because there is no more free higher education, paying exorbitant rent and without a decent pension somehow have it easy because they own a mobile phone...

*There are at least 3 people that I know well who bought properties back in the sixties or seventies for comically small amounts of money that are now worth between half a million and (in probably 2 cases) over a million pounds.

 

[Rroff]

Lots could be done, and indeed has been attempted, but proved politically unpopular.

Indeed but it is often trivialised and that doesn't really lead to workable solutions - the same that some who lean more to the extreme of the left can't see that you need to find balance to the inequality - you can't just break the system and force equality and everything works.

Maybe you should try to be more considerate of those not as fortunate as yours and your parents generation?

Maybe you should try and not be so arrogant to think that you simply "worked harder" for it than people do now days?

Maybe you should try and see things from a point of view other than your own privileged position?

But then... Boomers never do give a **** about anyone but themselves, so why would you?

Many of that generation worked extremely hard for what they have - and I think that is part of the reason they don't recognise the circumstances that far too many are in these days where the same level of hard work does not get anything like the same return.

 

[Mr Badger]

Indeed but it is often trivialised and that doesn't really lead to workable solutions - the same that some who lean more to the extreme of the left can't see that you need to find balance to the inequality - you can't just break the system and force equality and everything works.



Many of that generation worked extremely hard for what they have - and I think that is part of the reason they don't recognise the circumstances that far too many are in these days where the same level of hard work does not get anything like the same return.

Has there ever been a generation in our society that didn't need to work hard? The boomers are recognised as being at the peak for getting the most out of "the system" but when has any generation had it easy and not had to work hard if you want to get something decent out of life?

 

[Rroff]

Has there ever been a generation in our society that didn't need to work hard? The boomers are recognised as being at the peak for getting the most out of "the system" but when has any generation had it easy and not had to work hard if you want to get something decent out of life?

It is always going to be somewhat subjective but ultimately it is about the balance of getting something commensurate with the effort and your supposed position in life - if you are working all hours in a reasonable job and can barely afford a barrel scraping terrace house for instance there is a lot wrong with society.

Obviously that won't be reflected uniformly over a generation and there will be some that did better and some that had it far harder in any generation.

EDIT: It is a funny one in many ways as people in the more recent generations can often afford lots of little luxuries that the so called boomers, etc. in a similar situation could only dream of but something that is poorly recognised is that often giving up those luxuries doesn't do anything material towards actually affording some of the big ticket things like a mortgage.

 

[Devilman]

Many of that generation worked extremely hard for what they have - and I think that is part of the reason they don't recognise the circumstances that far too many are in these days where the same level of hard work does not get anything like the same return.

Indeed, I do not dispute that many of them worked extremely hard to get what they had, but I think @Mr Badger summed up pretty well the point I was making (albeit rather heavy handedly) ...

Has there ever been a generation in our society that didn't need to work hard? The boomers are recognised as being at the peak for getting the most out of "the system" but when has any generation had it easy and not had to work hard if you want to get something decent out of life?

This is the issue... Boomers often like to think that they worked harder to get to where they are, which they often then use as an excuse to dismiss any suggestion that the same opportunities do not exist for younger people, that they benefited greatly from.

 

[deuse]

Never seen men moan so much in my life.

 

[Bear]

Yet another ******* pyramid scheme to keep the greedy, selfish, arrogant boomers in their paid-for houses at the young's expense.

Utterly disgusting bunch of self-serving *****.

Drama queen much. They could always make them sell their houses for their care but then your inheritance goes up in smoke

 

[Bear]

When the majority of those individuals fall within the demographic of boomers, then what?

Those boomers you talk about are probably your parents and if not then your grandparents. Each person that votes for a party will vote for what generally aligns with their political view point and you guys will be no different, to make out you will be some martyr to the cause is laughable, you're just full of ****. It is certainly unfortunate how things have turned out for sure, and I do understand the issue Im outside of the boomers myself so havent benefited from a lot of the things they have so Im not naive of the issues. The reality is unless the boomers go out with a bang and blow all of their money/wealth, then you and your family will benefit from it in the end, its just been deferred for a bit.

Most parents I know try to amass as much wealth over a lifetime if they are able because they want to leave as large a legacy to their children

 

[Devilman]

Those boomers you talk about are probably your parents and if not then your grandparents. Each person that votes for a party will vote for what generally aligns with their political view point and you guys will be no different, to make out you will be some martyr to the cause is laughable, you're just full of ****. It is certainly unfortunate how things have turned out for sure, and I do understand the issue Im outside of the boomers myself so havent benefited from a lot of the things they have so Im not naive of the issues. The reality is unless the boomers go out with a bang and blow all of their money/wealth, then you and your family will benefit from it in the end, its just been deferred for a bit.

Most parents I know try to amass as much wealth over a lifetime if they are able because they want to leave as large a legacy to their children

Show me how many people these days are able to afford to buy their own house, compared to when boomers bought theirs? or how many people these days are able to afford to have 1 parent at home full-time (Housewife / HouseHusband) ?

The facts are the facts. You can try to spin any nonsense narrative you like, but boomer generation has, on a whole, taken far more out of the system than they have put in while benefiting enormously from social care and social housing, something which their children and grandchildren will not stand a chance of.

The pension problem has been known about for decades and subsequent governments, mostly consisting of politicians whom themselves are part of the boomer generation, have both failed to address the issue - or worse been elected on manifesto promises which allowed that generation / age group to continue to kick the can down the road onto the next generation, when the problem was of their making. (Triple lock on the state pension is a perfect example of this).

At what point do people absolve themselves of any responsibility for the issues they themselves have caused and just expect their kids / grandkids to deal with it?

 

[Ayahuasca]

Boom, boom, boom lemme here ya say wheyooo wheyooo

 

[Bear]

Show me how many people these days are able to afford to buy their own house, compared to when boomers bought theirs? or how many people these days are able to afford to have 1 parent at home full-time (Housewife / HouseHusband) ?

The facts are the facts. You can try to spin any nonsense narrative you like, but boomer generation has, on a whole, taken far more out of the system than they have put in while benefiting enormously from social care and social housing, something which their children and grandchildren will not stand a chance of.

The pension problem has been known about for decades and subsequent governments, mostly consisting of politicians whom themselves are part of the boomer generation, have both failed to address the issue - or worse been elected on manifesto promises which allowed that generation / age group to continue to kick the can down the road onto the next generation, when the problem was of their making. (Triple lock on the state pension is a perfect example of this).

At what point do people absolve themselves of any responsibility for the issues they themselves have caused and just expect their kids / grandkids to deal with it?

The nonsense narrative isnt spun by me, Im well aware what the situation is, the difference is Im not deluded enough to think if you were in their position, you would have done anything different. And I say again unless the boomers go out with a bang and blow all of their money/wealth, then you and your family will benefit from it in the end, its just been deferred for a bit. Most parents I know try to amass as much wealth over a lifetime if they are able because they want to leave as large a legacy to their children