Tolerance vs Consideration.

Soldato
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I've observed these things too.

I think society is getting worse for tolerance and consideration the further we move away from the world wars.

When I think about the world 3 generations back from me had to deal with. Great grandfather served in WW1 then died soon after when back home. His son, my grandad, served in WW2. So for 2 generations the background was of war and an enemy. Then the 'boomers', which is a term I'm not fond of, seemed to rebel against the disciplined strictness of their parents, and we as a society seem to be slowly going downhill.

Maybe that is just how human nature is. Unless some national or world event takes place people aren't going to be that considerate of others.

I've noticed very few people will do something for someone else if their is no benefit to them.
 
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Caporegime
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Some kids just don't respond to a quiet word and rational explanation, in fact a lot of young adults don't either these days. If she'd shouted at them or smacked them on the bum for misbehaving you'd probably be on here talking about an abusive parent down at the cafe. It's probably better to just let your children run amok than have social services and police at your door.
 
Caporegime
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@Raymond Lin that's exactly what I'm talking about. But saying that, your cultural background and family are probably really good influences.

This is why I like going to Fast East Asia, mostly Japan. People say the Japanese are kind, that they are, but the word they are looking for is that they are considerate. It’s in everything from very very little graffiti and trash because we all share the same space so would you make your home more dirty? To not speaking on public transport because it’s annoying to have the person next to you being loud, so you don’t be loud yourself or they would take all the rubbish with them when they leave a place like a football match or popcorn in the cinema. There is a proverb in Japanese that means you leave a place as you found it.
 
Soldato
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Social distancing is elevating how frustrated I'm getting with other people.

I was walking into town the other day along a pavement that follows an extremely busy A road and said pavement is pretty narrow. I can't cross or walk into the road, so I'm not far off walking on the kerb but the couple waking towards me decide to stay two abreast and are literally shoulder to shoulder with me.

I was also in a queue for an M&S a few weeks ago, where the queue was making its way into a disabled bay and into the car park because a homeless guy was sat further down in the actual queing area (making 2m distancing from him impossible). I'm the next person able to step onto the pavement from the disabled bay but the woman in front of me is so invested in her phone that there's 6+ spaces between her and the person in front of her. I ask her with a clear annoyed tone in my voice to move forward, as there's people queing into where cars are driving. Her response "Alright! I was looking at my phone wasn't I?!" I left it at that, but considered telling her she should be more aware of her surroundings, especially in this current climate.
 
Soldato
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It's an interesting one. It seems that the more free and individually focussed society becomes, the less we care about how we treat other people and our surroundings.

I wonder if it's possible to encourage personal freedom, individuality etc without becoming selfish, entitled tossers?
 
Man of Honour
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It's an interesting one. It seems that the more free and individually focussed society becomes, the less we care about how we treat other people and our surroundings.

I wonder if it's possible to encourage personal freedom, individuality etc without becoming selfish, entitled tossers?

I don't think that's quite it, or at least not entirely it. When group identity replaces individual identity, the "selfish, entitled tossers" attitude you refer to is just retargetted to group identities instead. Even if the group identity is "society", there's still the likelihood of the same attitude towards anyone not in that society.

Perhaps the rather unpleasant answer is less freedom, but that doesn't necessarily solve the problem and has many problems of its own.
 
Associate
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Can agree with a lot of the sentiment in the thread however people moaning about kids running about in the park, just lol. :rolleyes:
I don’t mind kids running around playing in the park, that is after all what it was put there for, what I object to is when the kids are screaming as it is annoying, if they were talking, cheering each other on as they are playing and using the play equipment then it’s fine. Also with all the stuff in the media about child abductions and paedophiles you would think that parents would keep a closer eye on their kids, also if a kid is screaming it could sound like an abduction but if that becomes the normal sound the kid makes then people will not notice. Perhaps also the parents could join in and play, I’ve seen parents take a kid there with a football, the parent will sit and look at their phone, the kid will be left to play on its own.
 
Soldato
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Social distancing is elevating how frustrated I'm getting with other people.

I was walking into town the other day along a pavement that follows an extremely busy A road and said pavement is pretty narrow. I can't cross or walk into the road, so I'm not far off walking on the kerb but the couple waking towards me decide to stay two abreast and are literally shoulder to shoulder with me.

I was also in a queue for an M&S a few weeks ago, where the queue was making its way into a disabled bay and into the car park because a homeless guy was sat further down in the actual queing area (making 2m distancing from him impossible). I'm the next person able to step onto the pavement from the disabled bay but the woman in front of me is so invested in her phone that there's 6+ spaces between her and the person in front of her. I ask her with a clear annoyed tone in my voice to move forward, as there's people queing into where cars are driving. Her response "Alright! I was looking at my phone wasn't I?!" I left it at that, but considered telling her she should be more aware of her surroundings, especially in this current climate.

I had something like this in the supermarket last night. Walking down an aisle, already one woman browsing to my right so I'm keeping left. Then three people, who are together, enter the aisle from the direction opposite me. One woman stands to my right browsing the shelf, a young woman stands slightly behind her essentially in the middle of the aisle then a young guy who makes eye contact with me as he's walking decides to stand slightly behind the young woman so they essentially take up the entire aisle. :facepalm:
 
Soldato
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I know people say 'it was always like this' but I don't remember it being as bad as it is now. A lot of people absolutely do not care about anyone else.
 
Caporegime
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I know people say 'it was always like this' but I don't remember it being as bad as it is now. A lot of people absolutely do not care about anyone else.

That's the same for me. I don't remember it being as bad as it is now, which is the reason for me making this thread really. Something seems to have happened over the last few decades to turn so many people in to selfish idiots, whether on a personal or familiaral scale.
 
Soldato
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It's the small things that get me, the other day at a busy roundabout, a queue of traffic waiting to go straight across, I want to turn right. Will anyone leave a gap so people like me can go round, not impeding them in any way as they can't go anywhere? Not a chance.
 
Caporegime
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It's the small things that get me, the other day at a busy roundabout, a queue of traffic waiting to go straight across, I want to turn right. Will anyone leave a gap so people like me can go round, not impeding them in any way as they can't go anywhere? Not a chance.

Exactly. Had the same thing recently too. You wouldn't have inconvenienced anyone but nobody has the decency to keep that gap open. A lot of roundabouts up here actually have a box painted there for that reason but people still go in it and block people off.
Perhaps we not more inconsiderate, just getting thicker.
 
Soldato
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It's the availability heuristic at work. We remember the chap who cut us up earlier, but not the one that did it 14 years, 7 months and 2 days ago.
 
Soldato
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I know people say 'it was always like this' but I don't remember it being as bad as it is now. A lot of people absolutely do not care about anyone else.
I agree. What I would have considered to be "normal" is now what OP calls being polite/considerate. The amount of ******** is definitely on the rise! Or is it just a complete lack of compassion for others?
 
Soldato
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I feel the same shared space comment has legs. We used to work together, live together and have leisure together. Imagine you lived in the West Mids anytime between the 1880's and teh 1950's. You lived in a long row of terraced houses. You and you're neighbours (at least the men) were almost certainly working in the same factories walking together to work. Your wives new each other as they were at home all day nearly every day. You would spend your time eiter in the same pubs, working mens clubs, churches or parks. And if you caught the train to go rambling or a seaside trip it was probably as group who knew each other. There was no internet or television or video recorder to allow you to entertain yourselves apart from everyone else. Most of you life was in shared spaces with people you knew well. There was no anonymity for your behaviour. You self regulate because you cared how you were percieved. That action become a general behaviour and carries through to times when you're not with people you know.

We have lost that. Increasingly we don't know our neighbours. How they think about us doesn't matter. We don't work with our neighbours, we know our colleagues less and less. Communal activities like the pub/club, church, park are not central forms of social interaction and entertainment. Ther person next to me will never see me again, it doesn't matter how I behave. Consideration is dying, it makes me very sad. I try to be considerate but I find myself somethimes being inconsiderate and feel bad for it, it's a behaviour I'm picking up from society rather than a conscious decision. I try to teach my kids to be considerate but there are so many other cultural influences it's hard.
 
Soldato
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I wonder if its the promotion of individuality that as caused this?

Back in the day most people wanted to be part of a group while contributing towards it. These days the more choice people have the more intolerant to others they have become.

TV back in the day had 4 channels in my era. We were forced to watch programmes that we wouldnt choose to watch. There were a lot more British black comedies on tv, like Desmonds, The Real McCoy etc. We learned about different cultures and people. These days those comedies only appear on black focused Sky/Virgin channels, or you have to seek them out. The kids today don't know about other cultures and don't care. Their empathy for other peoples views, lifestyles and culture as dropped a lot.

The promotion of tolerance today while most people are at least subconciously intolerant. A mad world we live in.
 
Man of Honour
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I know people say 'it was always like this' but I don't remember it being as bad as it is now. A lot of people absolutely do not care about anyone else.

What we remember of the past isn't necessarily accurate, though. I recall the 70s as being the best times. My mother recalls the 50s as being the best times. A fair few people have posted on here about how they recall the 90s being the best times. I think that's part of the answer. I think PlacidCasual neatly describes another part of the answer:

I feel the same shared space comment has legs. We used to work together, live together and have leisure together. Imagine you lived in the West Mids anytime between the 1880's and teh 1950's. You lived in a long row of terraced houses. You and you're neighbours (at least the men) were almost certainly working in the same factories walking together to work. Your wives new each other as they were at home all day nearly every day. You would spend your time eiter in the same pubs, working mens clubs, churches or parks. And if you caught the train to go rambling or a seaside trip it was probably as group who knew each other. There was no internet or television or video recorder to allow you to entertain yourselves apart from everyone else. Most of you life was in shared spaces with people you knew well. There was no anonymity for your behaviour. You self regulate because you cared how you were percieved. That action become a general behaviour and carries through to times when you're not with people you know.

We have lost that. Increasingly we don't know our neighbours. How they think about us doesn't matter. We don't work with our neighbours, we know our colleagues less and less. Communal activities like the pub/club, church, park are not central forms of social interaction and entertainment. Ther person next to me will never see me again, it doesn't matter how I behave. Consideration is dying, it makes me very sad. I try to be considerate but I find myself somethimes being inconsiderate and feel bad for it, it's a behaviour I'm picking up from society rather than a conscious decision. I try to teach my kids to be considerate but there are so many other cultural influences it's hard.

Or, to put it another way, society has become less social. Social media doesn't fill the gap. It doesn't have to be social and it can at least as easily be downright antisocial.
 
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