Effects of electric cars on automotive industry

Soldato
Joined
24 Oct 2002
Posts
14,162
Location
Bucks and Edinburgh
if you have 100 people how many would be able to do a 300 mile journey non stop.

I would certainly stop whichever car I was in unless I was doing 120mph.

When I worked in Edinburgh, I used to drive up every now and then if I was having a long weekend in the Highlands so did the 430 mile drive from Bucks on the edge of the M25 to Edinburgh in one go
 
Soldato
Joined
19 Oct 2002
Posts
16,407
Location
Shakespeare’s County
It isn't PR spam, it includes some (potentially) interesting information about how Tesla's latest cooling system works. Including a tear-down from a well-respected individual in the industry. And it was posted because of the absurd suggestion I quoted that oil may replace the current coolants used and may require more of it than an engine. A liquid glycol solution is also used as coolant in the Model 3 and other synthetic fluids in the so-called 'oil filter' you were referring to. Which is a gearbox fluid, not a coolant. That is a sealed and as you say unservicable part with a very small amount of solution compared to an ICE engine's coolant tank.

The octo valve is a good example of a vertically integrated company making parts for their own car on a fresh sheet of paper - it kind of has t nothing to do with the actually cooling system elegance. They just have freedom unlike OEM use suppliers and volume leverage that contrains design.

back to the point.
Like an engine the coolant circulating also cools the oil, and indeed a gearbox, clearly torque converters tend to have external coolant to oil heat exchangers.

Just odd to reference Tesla when the model Y is their first application of a heat pump to manage the EV heat flux.
 
Last edited:
Soldato
Joined
18 Feb 2010
Posts
6,810
Location
Newcastle-upon-Tyne
The octo valve is a good example of a vertically integrated company making parts for their own car on a fresh sheet of paper - it kind of has t nothing to do with the actually cooling system elegance. They just have freedom unlike OEM use suppliers and volume leverage that contrains design.

back to the point.
Like an engine the coolant circulating also cools the oil, and indeed a gearbox, clearly torque converters tend to have external coolant to oil heat exchangers.

Just odd to reference Tesla when the model Y is their first application of a heat pump to manage the EV heat flux.

Well the Model 3's 'Superbottle' aids cooling of the motors in a similar way, doesn't it? I mean, it shows an engineered solution which avoids the use of "more oil than an engine uses for cooling". What I think is odd is trying to cliam EVs will use more oil than an engine in the future. They don't do that now, so why would they in the future?
 
Soldato
Joined
19 Oct 2002
Posts
16,407
Location
Shakespeare’s County
The super bottle is a pair of pumps, a 5 way valve and a header tank all integrated into a single part. Neat but no revolution.

Because things get better? Ie why Tesla added the filter after all the model S front motors they were changing after 35k...
Maybe bathed oil is better than conductive glycol when you want to cool small power electronics? I don’t know if there is a forum that specialises in high performance electronics? Maybe some sort of overclocking hobby?

It’s moot anyway as the frequency of change will be far less of you you are angling to argue against a drop in lubricating oil demand, I think we can all see that’s a given.
 
Caporegime
Joined
22 Oct 2002
Posts
26,810
Location
Boston, Lincolnshire
I don't think the decline of independent will be that bad after all people will need tyres brakes and some other bits. But yes they willl decrease a fair bit.

if you have 100 people how many would be able to do a 300 mile journey non stop.

I would certainly stop whichever car I was in unless I was doing 120mph.

You are missing the point. It is the fact you have to factor in a break and stop in the driving regardless. ICE doesn't have that disadvantage. ICE has the advantage that you can choose when you stop. You could have a scenario where you have to charge your car to then travel another 15 minutes then need the toilet. Making your total stops 2 instead of one.
 
Soldato
Joined
19 Oct 2002
Posts
16,407
Location
Shakespeare’s County
You are missing the point. It is the fact you have to factor in a break and stop in the driving regardless. ICE doesn't have that disadvantage. ICE has the advantage that you can choose when you stop. You could have a scenario where you have to charge your car to then travel another 15 minutes then need the toilet. Making your total stops 2 instead of one.


Give over that’s just silly, grab a coffee at either stop and the same result is likely.

I took dogs away with me last week, that’s certainly reinforced frequency of stops and probably lines up nicely with EV charging.
 
Caporegime
Joined
21 Oct 2002
Posts
26,251
Location
Here
Thanks for the information, although I'm not aware of any oil being used as a coolant in Tesla vehicles. The cooling system used, including the 'Octovalve' I linked to (Model Y) and 'Super Bottle' (Model 3), uses the glycol fluid to cool the motors as well. Any oil is just used in relatively small amounts in sealed chambers and not used as a coolant as far as I'm aware?

I never said oil was being used as a coolant by current teslas though

It isn't PR spam, it includes some (potentially) interesting information about how Tesla's latest cooling system works. Including a tear-down from a well-respected individual in the industry. And it was posted because of the absurd suggestion I quoted that oil may replace the current coolants used and may require more of it than an engine. A liquid glycol solution is also used as coolant in the Model 3 and other synthetic fluids in the so-called 'oil filter' you were referring to. Which is a gearbox fluid, not a coolant. That is a sealed and as you say unservicable part with a very small amount of solution compared to an ICE engine's coolant tank.
I'm still trying to work out what he defines as transmission if a gearbox is something different according to that video?
 
Soldato
Joined
6 Oct 2004
Posts
18,300
Location
Birmingham
In my opinion EV needs to offer the exact benefits of an ICE before it is complete and a 100% alternative to ICE.

What a ridiculous argument... EV already has plenty of advantages over ICE - why does it need to have the same benefits of an ICE as well?

It's as absurd as saying ICE will never be a 100% alternative to EV until you can have one which is completely silent, no exhaust fumes, instant torque with no gear changes, and fills itself overnight from a private petrol pump on your drive.
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Feb 2010
Posts
6,810
Location
Newcastle-upon-Tyne
It’s moot anyway as the frequency of change will be far less of you you are angling to argue against a drop in lubricating oil demand, I think we can all see that’s a given.

Can't argue with that. Sometimes a reaction (mine) to a post (Nasher's) can be caused not so much by what was said, but more who said it and what their motive behind saying it was. ;)
 
Soldato
Joined
6 Oct 2004
Posts
18,300
Location
Birmingham
Because it's intended to replace it?

That doesn't mean it needs to be exactly the same. Like I said, EV has plenty of its own benefits. If we were going the other way (EV -> ICE), then people would be making a similar argument (it's not as convenient, it's too noisy, what's with these stupid "gear" things etc.).

Different != better/worse
 
Soldato
Joined
19 Oct 2002
Posts
16,407
Location
Shakespeare’s County
it’s fair to say a lot of Main Dealers are worried about post sale revenue streams with the inherent less servicing and hence packs they can sell and charge for.


Can't argue with that. Sometimes a reaction (mine) to a post (Nasher's) can be caused not so much by what was said, but more who said it and what their motive behind saying it was. ;)

yeah I get Masher rage when I read stuff and start spamming my keyboard. :D
 
Soldato
Joined
1 Apr 2003
Posts
11,890
Location
Northamptonshire
Because it's intended to replace it?

That's flawed thinking in my opinion. Cars replaced horses, but cars had disadvantages over horses.

To me, the folk saying that EVs need to have all the advantages of EVs as well all the advantages of ICE are either:

- resistant to change in any form, or
- have an irrational hatred of EVs

For a rational person, when the upsides outweigh the downsides, then it's time to change. :)
 
Man of Honour
Joined
17 Oct 2002
Posts
159,534
I have absolutely no hatred of EV and have mentioned numerous times that there is no question that one of my cars will be an EV when it's replaced :)
 
Back
Top Bottom