Poll: DAB+ is the future? Digital terrestrial radio broadcasting

[4K8KW10]

Have you any idea of how arrogant you sound? "The countries that went that route this early, today don't understand a thing about DAB+ and HE-AAC v2, v3, etc."

The UK has had DAB public broadcasts since 1995, so we have had DAB for a quarter of a century. I can assure you, we understand about the more efficient CODECs. That doesn't change the fact that our situation is different from that of Germany.

I am not going to accept a lecture from you when you live in a country that only launched its DAB service in 2011, and then it wasn't DAB but DAB+.

Germany hasn't had a DAB service. Your country is a Jonny-come-lately. It waited for someone else to do all the hard work, and now you have the nerve to stand on the shoulder of giants to proclaim how inferior DAB is and how we must all adopt DAB+. No, Sir. It will not stand.

Quite what Finland does with radio is their business. The Fins do a lot of things differently. Their education system starts later. Their driving instruction lasts a lot longer. But they also are a happier nation, so I don't think we have the right to criticise them. If FM meet's their needs, then so be it.

I have said before that I am not against DAB or DAB+ in principle if it offers genuine consumer benefits. What I am against is the Government peddling spin in order to get its hands on the bandwidth currently occupied by FM so it can turn a nice windfall profit. That is deceit.

If Germany's experience with DAB+ is positive then good luck to the country and I hope it continues. Please learn lessons from the UK. Our DAB+ will turn in to a rerun of DAB where quantity rather than quality is the mantra.

I disagree. If Berlin decides that the whole Union must accept a certain standard, then who are the Finns to decide against it?
They use an inferior standard, go against the audio systems standards and go against the foreigners who may very well be used to the better quality DAB+.

When you are in a union, you must follow the common interest, and the better interest, not your own arrogant interest as in Finland.

 

[kitfit1]

Have you any idea of how arrogant you sound? "The countries that went that route this early, today don't understand a thing about DAB+ and HE-AAC v2, v3, etc."

The UK has had DAB public broadcasts since 1995, so we have had DAB for a quarter of a century. I can assure you, we understand about the more efficient CODECs. That doesn't change the fact that our situation is different from that of Germany.

I am not going to accept a lecture from you when you live in a country that only launched its DAB service in 2011, and then it wasn't DAB but DAB+.

Germany hasn't had a DAB service. Your country is a Jonny-come-lately. It waited for someone else to do all the hard work, and now you have the nerve to stand on the shoulder of giants to proclaim how inferior DAB is and how we must all adopt DAB+. No, Sir. It will not stand.

Quite what Finland does with radio is their business. The Fins do a lot of things differently. Their education system starts later. Their driving instruction lasts a lot longer. But they also are a happier nation, so I don't think we have the right to criticise them. If FM meet's their needs, then so be it.

I have said before that I am not against DAB or DAB+ in principle if it offers genuine consumer benefits. What I am against is the Government peddling spin in order to get its hands on the bandwidth currently occupied by FM so it can turn a nice windfall profit. That is deceit.

If Germany's experience with DAB+ is positive then good luck to the country and I hope it continues. Please learn lessons from the UK. Our DAB+ will turn in to a rerun of DAB where quantity rather than quality is the mantra.

Well, all i'm going to do is add to @lucid view. I don't listen to radio at home, but i do at work. At work i use a Makita DAB radio and the sound is superb, but only when using FM. The reason i now have the DAB version of the radio is because sometimes FM is rubbish where i could be working, so DAB is the only choice really.
If in the UK FM is turned off.............................i might as well chuck the Makita in the bin because quite frankly i would rather listen to stuff downloaded to my phone.

 

[kitfit1]

I disagree. If Berlin decides that the whole Union must accept a certain standard, then who are the Finns to decide against it?
They use an inferior standard, go against the audio systems standards and go against the foreigners who may very well be used to the better quality DAB+.

When you are in a union, you must follow the common interest, and the better interest, not your own arrogant interest as in Finland.

God............................you are an arrogant individual BERLIN does not decide what the whole UNION does..........................the union does.

 

[lucid]

I disagree. If Berlin decides that the whole Union must accept a certain standard, then who are the Finns to decide against it?
They use an inferior standard, go against the audio systems standards and go against the foreigners who may very well be used to the better quality DAB+.

When you are in a union, you must follow the common interest, and the better interest, not your own arrogant interest as in Finland.

I suspected it before, but now I know you are trolling. Would you like to throw in a link to some rousing music too? A bit of Wagner perhaps? Or what about a stiringly-patriotic national anthem to welcome the new digital world order?

 

[4K8KW10]

God............................you are an arrogant individual BERLIN does not decide what the whole UNION does..........................the union does.

Germany is the largest economy, the fastest country and the driving force of the Union.

Measure 1: In order to support the digitisation of radio, the Federal Ministry of Transport and Digital Infrastructure
is proposing to incorporate a provision in the Telecommunications Act under which the vast majority of radio receivers
would have to be equipped in the future with at least one digital interface, enabling reception and playback of digitally encoded content,
provided that this is allowable under European law. To achieve advantages of scale in production,
Germany will push for this rule to be included in the regulatory framework of other EU Member States.

Page 10: https://www.worlddab.org/public_doc...rmation-hoerfunkverbreitung-en.pdf?1496824667

 

[5punk3monk3y]

Germany is the largest economy, the fastest country and the driving force of the Union.

Wow.

And all this from a guy who says HDR is a gimmick. Further to that I also believe you claimed your SDR LCD TV outputs HDR (cos you turned the brightness up)

Idiot.

 

[4K8KW10]

Wow.

What of the said is not true and give an argument about your point?!

And all this from a guy who says HDR is a gimmick. Further to that I also believe you claimed your SDR LCD TV outputs HDR (cos you turned the brightness up

This is totally offtopic.

Idiot.

No one has asked you to tell us what you think about yourself.

 

[4K8KW10]

DAB radio to be standard in all new passenger cars
https://radiotoday.co.uk/2020/08/dab-radio-to-be-standard-in-all-new-passenger-cars/

DAB Digital Radio will be installed as standard in all new passenger vehicles by the end of this year following new regulations passed through Parliament.

The new legal regulations were approved to support the mandating of digital radios in passenger vehicles in the UK following a consultation by the Department for Transport relating to aspects of the European Electronic Communications Code (“EECC”) covering vehicles.

The Road Vehicles (Approval) Regulations 2020 will come into force on 1 September 2020 and implement the provisions of the EU Directive covering the compulsory fitment of digital radio in passenger cars and buses that come fitted with a radio.

The regulation specifies the fitment of digital terrestrial radio broadcasting, rather than IP, and includes a 4-month grace period granting automotive manufacturers until 21 December 2020 to meet the requirement.

The new regulation does not apply to second hand cars or commercial vehicles such as vans.

As of Q2 2020, 93.9% of new cars registered in the UK were fitted with DAB digital radio as standard, and the new regulation will require the remaining 6% of new cars to be fitted with digital radio. The regulation does not apply to commercial vehicles, which represent 5 million vehicles on the road in the UK. As of Q2 2020, 79% of commercial vehicles were fitted with DAB digital radio as standard, an increase from 62.8% in Q2 2019.

The Department for Transport’s new regulations, alongside the collaboration over recent years across industry, the DCMS, and the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT), will take the percentage of new cars fitted with digital radio as standard to the milestone of 100%.

Ford Ennals, CEO, Digital Radio UK, told RadioToday: “We welcome the Government mandate for digital radio to be fitted in all new cars sold in the UK from the end of 2020. It’s a significant milestone in UK radio’s transition to digital and will ensure that drivers will be able to receive the full range of brilliant digital stations available in their cars.

“It also reinforces the position of DAB as the primary radio broadcast technology alongside FM and wouldn’t have been possible without the massive support of the SMMT and the automotive manufacturers who have already increased DAB fitment to nearly 95%.”

 

[kitfit1]

To be honest, who gives a monkeys about DAB in a car ? It's not like any of us are gliding along with no other sound that we can listen to the "purity" of DAB.
What actually matters is that we still have FM available at home.

 

[4K8KW10]

To be honest, who gives a monkeys about DAB in a car ? It's not like any of us are gliding along with no other sound that we can listen to the "purity" of DAB.
What actually matters is that we still have FM available at home.

Until some point when it will be switched off, once and for all, and for good. For the quality.

 

[PoliticallyCorrect]

DAB+ rollout isn’t as difficult as the move to DVB-T2 however since DAB and DAB+ stations can co-exist on the same multiplex. I ran a check recently from my local transmitter and I was surprised how many stations have moved to DAB+ now - 37% of all stations, leaving just mostly the “original” DAB stations (main absoluteRadio, classicFM, TalkSport, local radio, BBC etc) on the older standard. An argument for moving even these ones to DAB+ is that most are available on FM as a backup anyway. Unfortunately in the UK though DAB+ has been more about the broadcasters squeezing spectrum by using the more efficient AAC codec at a low rate, rather than boosting SQ at the same bitrate vs MP2 - so it’s not worth worrying too much about as a listener.

DAB in the UK since the beginning has always been criticised for its SQ - early adoption on MP2, low bitrates apart from Radio3 etc .. but in my opinion FM isn’t great either - stops at 15kHz sample rate and requires “sound enhancers” to restore that loss. Radio is radio, might as well switch all broadcasts to DAB when most tuners can support it.

 

[4K8KW10]

DAB+ rollout isn’t as difficult as the move to DVB-T2 however since DAB and DAB+ stations can co-exist on the same multiplex. I ran a check recently from my local transmitter and I was surprised how many stations have moved to DAB+ now - 37% of all stations, leaving just mostly the “original” DAB stations (main absoluteRadio, classicFM, TalkSport, local radio, BBC etc) on the older standard. An argument for moving even these ones to DAB+ is that most are available on FM as a backup anyway. Unfortunately in the UK though DAB+ has been more about the broadcasters squeezing spectrum by using the more efficient AAC codec at a low rate, rather than boosting SQ at the same bitrate vs MP2 - so it’s not worth worrying too much about as a listener.

DAB in the UK since the beginning has always been criticised for its SQ - early adoption on MP2, low bitrates apart from Radio3 etc .. but in my opinion FM isn’t great either - stops at 15kHz sample rate and requires “sound enhancers” to restore that loss. Radio is radio, might as well switch all broadcasts to DAB when most tuners can support it.

Yes, this is a natural process (will take some years, though) - once all people are equipped with new DAB+ receivers which they will buy anyways because it's mandatory for the manufacturers to include them, then we will be all set to a 100% move to DAB+.

 

[a1ex2001]

How long do we think radio is going to carry on? DAB could have A very short shelf life given the move to streaming a bit like terrestrial TV services which I can’t see lasting long.

 

[4K8KW10]

How long do we think radio is going to carry on? DAB could have A very short shelf life given the move to streaming a bit like terrestrial TV services which I can’t see lasting long.

There is no moving to streaming because there are no standards for it and it is very expensive (monthly bills to providers that don't even work for radio broadcasting but for general internet access) for the consumer.

 

[lucid]

There is no moving to streaming because there are no standards for it and it is very expensive (monthly bills to providers that don't even work for radio broadcasting but for general internet access) for the consumer.

I think there's a danger of getting crossed wires here. My view of streaming (paid or free) is where the listener chooses their own track listing. In effect, they are the DJ.

Radio via the Internet is something different. Some other person is selecting the content, and the listener is dipping in to what's playing now. This is where Internet radio challenges FM/DAB/DAB+.

There are generally no additional costs to access this content. For someone with an existing mobile broadband phone contract, and the phone to go with it, then Internet radio cost nothing other than data usage, and it's available wherever there's a data connection, and there are no additional hardware costs.

I don't know what data pricing is like in Germany, but in the UK someone would either have to have a very low-capacity deal or be a very heavy data user for Internet radio to be considered too data-hungry.

 

[4K8KW10]

I don't like to waste time in selecting my "own track listing". This is expensive, time consuming, uncomfortable and has severe limits with regards to access to content.

 

[lucid]

I don't like to waste time in selecting my "own track listing". This is expensive, time consuming, uncomfortable and has severe limits with regards to access to content.

Fine; streaming obviously isn't for you then, but that's okay.

Internet radio still gives you what standard radio from FM/DAB/DAB+, and so picking up on @alex2001's and extending it, since so many people have their phone in their hand then Internet radio is accessible easily and at no additional cost for many.

 

[PoliticallyCorrect]

Typical DAB multiplexes in the UK (local one varies a bit by region) - might be of interest. Ignore the reception info, i'm on the edge of coverage with a single element dipole antenna.

 

[4K8KW10]

Fine; streaming obviously isn't for you then, but that's okay.

Internet radio still gives you what standard radio from FM/DAB/DAB+, and so picking up on @alex2001's and extending it, since so many people have their phone in their hand then Internet radio is accessible easily and at no additional cost for many.

I have the Panasonic PMX94 DAB+ capable audio system. It doesn't work with wireless 2.4GHz/5GHz signals simply because it's not in its specifications list.
This audio system provides very high quality of the sound and I cannot imagine comparing its quality to any smartphone quality, which still needs proper mobile internet connection which I don't have.
Also, there are obviously other similar audio systems which do have both connection options but I don't think anything is easier or more convenient than the single click on the button to play DAB+.

Typical DAB multiplexes in the UK (local one varies a bit by region) - might be of interest. Ignore the reception info, i'm on the edge of coverage with a single element dipole antenna.

You need a bigger and more capable antenna.

 

[a1ex2001]

I don't like to waste time in selecting my "own track listing". This is expensive, time consuming, uncomfortable and has severe limits with regards to access to content.

I think you missed my point, I was implying that ‘internet radio’ (horrible term) is likely the real long term successor to FM in much the same way TV over the internet will almost certainly replace the TV aerial before too long. In the U.K. it is already possible to easily listen to pretty much any radio station via the internet i don’t even need to press a button I can just ask Alexa! I’ve no idea what bitrate or codec is used but it sounds fine to me for background noise/casual listening which is all the radio is for in most people’s worlds.

I also find the DAB v’s DAB+ debate quite amusing the vast majority of people is tending to the radio simply are not going to care or notice as they are listening in cars or on cheap radio’s those who worry about sound quality of radio are in even more of a minority than those who think the quality of Spotify streams is unacceptable.