The Battlefield 4 Thread 2015

Caporegime
Joined
1 Jun 2006
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33,506
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Notts
BF1 is a lot better than BF5 infact anything is...its **** . BF1 isnt amazing but some of it is great but nothing like BF3 or BF4 . really do miss a good battlefield game hopefully Dice get the next one right.
 
Soldato
Joined
7 Jan 2009
Posts
6,369
I couldn't get on with bf1 or BF5 just didn't feel like a battlefield to me, I don't know what happened back at ea/dice but whatever it was, didn't do the games any favours.
 
Caporegime
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
39,306
Location
Ireland
Given the posts that are being removed from the BF6 threads on the official forums, under loose pretexts i.e. concerns about anti-cheat being removed citing discussion of cheating, calling out Dice for exactly the problems they need to address I don't hold out any hope. Another developer sadly lost up their own rear lacking the self-awareness (I seem to be using this word a lot lately) to address the problems within the company.


Their official forums are a ******* joke, little arsewipe EA lapdog moderators acting liker little Hitlers. Can't mention cheating as all they do is tell you to report them like that actually does anything. Cheating has become rampant in recent months and yet nothing is done about it, seen numerous people get reported in servers for obvious cheating and you still see them playing weeks later.

BFV was a colossal ***********, from the whole "Gender-field" thing to the game being delayed for a month and still being released as a bug riddled early access title, to the legacy bugs like scoping in and the screen staying black, or the crosshairs not fully rendering or rendering at all, or the death bug that means you can't re-spawn. Then we have that utterly retarded looking slide mechanic that seems to accelerate movement in certain instances, apparently the ground in WW2 was made of highly polished Marble. And less said about the canned animations for revives the better, you have someone revived and you get shot on the last animation frame and it renders it void despite the fact you've already administered the injection....

How Dice managed to royally balls up an anticipated return to WW2 for the first time on PC since 2002 boggles the mind, you expected returns to classic maps like Stalingrad, Market Garden, Omaha, and instead got these random maps that were totally forgettable.

Dice really need to go back to the drawing board on 2 key factors, team balancing and anti cheat. The amount of games in BF that are just one team totally decimating the other is farcical, there is zero team balance at all. It's been a glaring issue for BF games for years now yet their only real response to it was the introduction of Behemoths which rarely changed the balance of the game.
 
Associate
Joined
15 Feb 2017
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the ghetto
moving to the stupid rent a server through the game was the biggest mistake Dice/EA made...

3rd party servers with procon support were great (for the most part) and you still had official BF servers if you didn't like anything being changed or tweaked...

oh and yes the forum mods are a bunch of tools :D
 
Caporegime
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
39,306
Location
Ireland
moving to the stupid rent a server through the game was the biggest mistake Dice/EA made...

3rd party servers with procon support were great (for the most part) and you still had official BF servers if you didn't like anything being changed or tweaked...

oh and yes the forum mods are a bunch of tools :D

Just wait for the run up to the next launch, they will put their usual spin on third party server rentals and say "we're looking into it" and maintain that line until long past launch and they've already pocketed the money.

It would be great to see a reporter in a press conference call them out on that, and also ask "Why should we buy Battlefield 6 after BFV launched as an early access, bug riddled pile of **** which you let hackers run rampant in and ended support for far sooner than it should have ended".
 
Associate
Joined
15 Feb 2017
Posts
2,152
Location
the ghetto
Just wait for the run up to the next launch, they will put their usual spin on third party server rentals and say "we're looking into it" and maintain that line until long past launch and they've already pocketed the money.

It would be great to see a reporter in a press conference call them out on that, and also ask "Why should we buy Battlefield 6 after BFV launched as an early access, bug riddled pile of **** which you let hackers run rampant in and ended support for far sooner than it should have ended".

yeah would be nice but a mod would probably throw them out lol

on a serious note, I was a huge fan of BF games starting with 1942... It angers me what they've done with it... The last good one was BF4.. BF1 and 5 are dead to me :D
 
Man of Honour
Joined
13 Oct 2006
Posts
91,115
yeah would be nice but a mod would probably throw them out lol

on a serious note, I was a huge fan of BF games starting with 1942... It angers me what they've done with it... The last good one was BF4.. BF1 and 5 are dead to me :D

I don't understand it - 1942 is a solid basis for starting a WW2 game from - just suffers a bit due to the mechanics and "netcode" being a product of the time... and they come out with BF V instead...
 
Man of Honour
Joined
13 Oct 2006
Posts
91,115
Well that has decided me to never touch an EA/Dice title again, though I was already of the won't willingly give EA my money opinion. My Battlefield forum account is now under review because I made a few critical but constructive posts... which have mostly been removed. LOL. Typical EA/Dice attitude the problems are anything but their responsibility.
 
Last edited:
Associate
Joined
21 Oct 2013
Posts
2,061
Location
Ild
yeah but they let COD blow them out of the park. The last 2 games have been rubbish so not sure how they plan on making money after alienating their core base.
probably try and use the advantage of steam now that they are back on and COD has its own thing
 
Caporegime
Joined
17 Jul 2010
Posts
25,728
Most of the original battlefield development team have left, frustrated with the direction the game went in, the management pushing their own ideas rather than what would improve the game and lack of accountability. The whole upper management appears to be full of EA yes men and people who don’t know the game and have been parachuted in by EA. I still hold out hope, but that hope is fading more and more with every release.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
13 Oct 2006
Posts
91,115
Yeah - problem is for the essence of the Battlefield gameplay I don't find any other game that scratches that itch - COD is good as far as it goes but sometimes I want a bit more and other takes on the genre tend to be either too far towards the sim aspect that I don't find it fun when you have to jump through hoops to mimic basic mechanics, horrifically clunky to play or bug ridden messes, even more so than Battlefield 4, that should never have been released, etc.
 
Caporegime
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
39,306
Location
Ireland
Well that has decided me to never touch an EA/Dice title again, though I was already of the won't willingly give EA my money opinion. My Battlefield forum account is now under review because I made a few critical but constructive posts... which have mostly been removed. LOL. Typical EA/Dice attitude the problems are anything but their responsibility.


My accounts been banned for about 2 months now, was told back then it was temporary and yet it's still banned. Apparently questioning moderation regarding cheating threads and criticising them putting so much effort into this "toxicity" filter in the chat and not bothering with cheat reports rubbed some little nazi the wrong way.
 

V F

V F

Soldato
Joined
13 Aug 2003
Posts
21,184
Location
UK
Most of the original battlefield development team have left, frustrated with the direction the game went in, the management pushing their own ideas rather than what would improve the game and lack of accountability. The whole upper management appears to be full of EA yes men and people who don’t know the game and have been parachuted in by EA. I still hold out hope, but that hope is fading more and more with every release.

Where did they go to?

My accounts been banned for about 2 months now, was told back then it was temporary and yet it's still banned. Apparently questioning moderation regarding cheating threads and criticising them putting so much effort into this "toxicity" filter in the chat and not bothering with cheat reports rubbed some little nazi the wrong way.

I'm not surprised. "Assault Rifle build" in The Division 2 is a name you cannot use. As is Glass Cannon. There are so many words censored in games now. It stops you from using them.

Even the sniper rifle, if you call your build White Death, it's a censored word yet it's the name of a sniper rifle in the game.
 
Caporegime
Joined
17 Jul 2010
Posts
25,728
Where did they go to?

That I'm unsure about, I think some have set up their own studios. You only need to look at their Glassdoor reviews:

Cons

There is a lot of shadow crunching going on. Typically, you are not "forced" to work but no one else is going to do your work for you so if you are not on deadline that will reflect bad on you, even if the deadline is completely unrealistic. Most of the time the tools are broken and they are a hassle to debug. A lot of times something breaks and it can take several hours to get fixed. You never know if you made something wrong locally or if something with the engine/editor itself is broken. The pipeline is messy at times and very unorganised. People can add or remove things without your knowledge because there is a lack of communication between stakeholders and no one is held responsible. Too often middle management and company leadership is bottlenecking production with vague ideas or goals. Some decisions make zero sense and hurt the overall production and no one is held responsible if it doesn't work. There resides an arrogance in the company, based on historical achievements from previous games in the earlier DICE era. This is toxic and is often used as a morale booster when things go sour in the community. Art trumps gameplay every day of the week. Always.

Multiple failed projects. The studio has not been successful at anything other than supporting other studios. (DICE Sweden) There is a clique here that consists of people who have been here since before the studio took the "DICE" name... They are friendly to your face but ultimately only look out for each other and will turn on you if they feel threatened in any way. Unfortunately management allows this as they are part of it. Slow career advancement partially because of the issue above. Also they will tell you that you're getting a promotion for years before actually going through with it. Few transferrable skills as an artist - you are either strictly working with Frostbite or 3D art (mostly photogrammetry) and they don't really like it if you try to do both. So good luck going somewhere else only knowing how to do one of those things. Leadership is not great at decision making or being accountable.

Creative leadership appears totally clueless. More often than not, their vision raises eyebrows, questions, and concerns. They push their ideas through anyways. Be prepared to work on systems you do not believe in, but leadership is convinced will be a smash hit. Studio leadership appears equally clueless or simply incapable of reining in creative leadership. The result is creative leadership is free to run amok with no oversight. Talking to studio leadership about issues will have them agree with you, only for nothing to happen. EA leadership either signs off everything without much scrutiny or are being kept in the dark on the problems the studio is facing right now. Leadership can make huge blunders but are forgiven and even promoted for the next project. Lower ranking employees can be stuck for years asking for a new role. Leadership conveniently holds meetings for themselves during playtests. Not surprisingly, they appear to be very disconnected with the state of the game. Developers also participate less and less because they know their concerns will not be addressed anymore. Bonuses and annual reviews can appear to be based on throwing darts. The quality or quantity of your work is not obviously reflected in your bonus which can range anywhere from 50 to 150%. Politics seems to play a bigger role than competence. For years, some designers accidentally had salaries significantly lower than other designers with comparable backgrounds, experience and titles. The editor for Frostbite is difficult to work with and feels like it is 15 years old. Basic file operations can take minutes, simple actions like copy and paste do not work reliably. Many people have left over the past couple months. It will be difficult to find potential replacements and get them up to speed. Talent loss may never recover. The studio has become much less open recently. You used to be able to submit anonymous questions for studio meetings. This is no longer possible. Contractors stay contractors forever.

Mass exodus of talent - lots of people leaving (senior people - some who have been there for 15+ years). It is apparent that there are massive gaps that will be very difficult to fill. Extremely political environment. DICE is unique in that they line managers who manage the talented people on the games - responsible for things such as performance reviews, staffing etc. Great in theory. Unfortunately very few of them have worked on games and have a very limited knowledge of the area they are responsible for. When it comes to an annual review they cannot judge the quality of the work for themselves so use the 'opinions' of others to judge leaving you open to political maneuvering from people who should be working with you. If politics is what motivates you then you will enjoy and thrive in this environment. Infinite contracts for contractors - they keep on renewing every 6 months and never take contractors on permanently which is bad for morale. Silo's - lots of different groups working on their own goals with very little communication or cooperation between them. Lack of strong leadership - lots of talk but plans invariably don't last longer than 6 months without changing Over reliance on a few people - while most people don't need to crunch it invariably falls on a few to burn the midnight oil and pull things together and those are the ones who suffer the most

Advice to Management

Recognize that you are a big part of the problem and the culture you have created is toxic

The game studio is divided in siloes that don't share the same goals. This leads to dysfunctional communication, lack of progress, as well as a lack of a clear vision. Strong presence of office politics; persuade the right people, "play the game", and pretend like any issues are non-existent to maintain a facade amongst people. "Buddy politics" & nepotism. If you're friends with the right people and if your partner needs an internship, this is the place to be. Crunch and crunch. Studio claimed to have stopped crunching when I joined, but the crunch was inevitable from the start. No paid overtime of course. Lack of ambition. Whenever I found poorly architectured and written code the response was often "wouldn't be the first time, so be it" or "oh it's just an assertion". "This should really be refactored, but..". As a junior, I wanted to learn and felt I had to quit if I didn't want to be institutionalized like the seniors. Can't retain developers. Many quit so often that you barely get to know them. One reason they can't retain developers is that they don't care if their employees are happy, they wouldn't move a senior in my team after 10+ years so the dev quit. So much experience and knowledge was lost with every senior leaving. Short term thinking like this hurts the studio in the long run. Tries to build an image of being a super healthy company that has a collective bargain's agreement with the union but doesn't follow the collective bargain agreement and don't care about its sentiment. Managers said they own me in the current position I'm in, won't move me or let me control my own paths - as if I can't work with my dream position at another company. Managers have been belittling, telling me I'm naïve to think the world could be a better place, as well as telling me that the grass isn't greener on the other side. The grass was greener on the other side. I had to leave as quickly as possible. Come here if you want your passion to die.

Cons

* If you don't want to make Battlefield for the rest of your life.. don't come. :p * Design discipline is weak and treated as second class citizens. Everything is run by various art departments. Sometimes it feels like people are more concerned about their portfolio reel / nice looking trailer than they are creating a fun and engaging GAME. * EA as a publisher gives great security and comfort. But they won't give a studio more than 2 yers to make a game. You won't see too much innovation in terms of genres or design coming from a studio like DICE. you will most likely see Battlefield with maybe a new mode every two years.

Advice to Management

Focus on gameplay and design. Your games are gorgeous, but that won't keep players playing for a long period.

Most of those are recent, 2019 or 2020.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
13 Oct 2006
Posts
91,115
One thing is for definite - the problems I'm having with the game and "netcode" are 100% triggered by the presence of certain other players - why they seem to impact my game so much, and in some cases 1-2 other people but not everyone in the same way, I can't fathom - I guess another Dice half-arsed job somewhere. For instance one game while it was the same group of players I went to 18-1 at the start, then a player with a 260ms latency joined who had VIP so wasn't ping kicked and a player who was running around with an ak5c and a score of like 7-20 who I was easily killing was suddenly smoking me like I wasn't even fighting back - then that player with 260ms latency left and I was back to killing the other player easily like I should have been able to. (Other players don't need to have that kind of latency to have an impact on my game but it was very noticeable in that case - I needed a clear 2 second jump on any player to stand a chance of winning a firefight despite a 20ms latency and no packetloss, etc. on my end - no one else was impacted to that degree).

Wish there was another game that scratched the itch for this kind of gameplay that didn't have these issues :(

EDIT: It is also made much worse when it happens by turning off bandwidth optimisation.
 
Last edited:
Caporegime
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
39,306
Location
Ireland
That I'm unsure about, I think some have set up their own studios. You only need to look at their Glassdoor reviews:

Cons

There is a lot of shadow crunching going on. Typically, you are not "forced" to work but no one else is going to do your work for you so if you are not on deadline that will reflect bad on you, even if the deadline is completely unrealistic. Most of the time the tools are broken and they are a hassle to debug. A lot of times something breaks and it can take several hours to get fixed. You never know if you made something wrong locally or if something with the engine/editor itself is broken. The pipeline is messy at times and very unorganised. People can add or remove things without your knowledge because there is a lack of communication between stakeholders and no one is held responsible. Too often middle management and company leadership is bottlenecking production with vague ideas or goals. Some decisions make zero sense and hurt the overall production and no one is held responsible if it doesn't work. There resides an arrogance in the company, based on historical achievements from previous games in the earlier DICE era. This is toxic and is often used as a morale booster when things go sour in the community. Art trumps gameplay every day of the week. Always.

Multiple failed projects. The studio has not been successful at anything other than supporting other studios. (DICE Sweden) There is a clique here that consists of people who have been here since before the studio took the "DICE" name... They are friendly to your face but ultimately only look out for each other and will turn on you if they feel threatened in any way. Unfortunately management allows this as they are part of it. Slow career advancement partially because of the issue above. Also they will tell you that you're getting a promotion for years before actually going through with it. Few transferrable skills as an artist - you are either strictly working with Frostbite or 3D art (mostly photogrammetry) and they don't really like it if you try to do both. So good luck going somewhere else only knowing how to do one of those things. Leadership is not great at decision making or being accountable.

Creative leadership appears totally clueless. More often than not, their vision raises eyebrows, questions, and concerns. They push their ideas through anyways. Be prepared to work on systems you do not believe in, but leadership is convinced will be a smash hit. Studio leadership appears equally clueless or simply incapable of reining in creative leadership. The result is creative leadership is free to run amok with no oversight. Talking to studio leadership about issues will have them agree with you, only for nothing to happen. EA leadership either signs off everything without much scrutiny or are being kept in the dark on the problems the studio is facing right now. Leadership can make huge blunders but are forgiven and even promoted for the next project. Lower ranking employees can be stuck for years asking for a new role. Leadership conveniently holds meetings for themselves during playtests. Not surprisingly, they appear to be very disconnected with the state of the game. Developers also participate less and less because they know their concerns will not be addressed anymore. Bonuses and annual reviews can appear to be based on throwing darts. The quality or quantity of your work is not obviously reflected in your bonus which can range anywhere from 50 to 150%. Politics seems to play a bigger role than competence. For years, some designers accidentally had salaries significantly lower than other designers with comparable backgrounds, experience and titles. The editor for Frostbite is difficult to work with and feels like it is 15 years old. Basic file operations can take minutes, simple actions like copy and paste do not work reliably. Many people have left over the past couple months. It will be difficult to find potential replacements and get them up to speed. Talent loss may never recover. The studio has become much less open recently. You used to be able to submit anonymous questions for studio meetings. This is no longer possible. Contractors stay contractors forever.

Mass exodus of talent - lots of people leaving (senior people - some who have been there for 15+ years). It is apparent that there are massive gaps that will be very difficult to fill. Extremely political environment. DICE is unique in that they line managers who manage the talented people on the games - responsible for things such as performance reviews, staffing etc. Great in theory. Unfortunately very few of them have worked on games and have a very limited knowledge of the area they are responsible for. When it comes to an annual review they cannot judge the quality of the work for themselves so use the 'opinions' of others to judge leaving you open to political maneuvering from people who should be working with you. If politics is what motivates you then you will enjoy and thrive in this environment. Infinite contracts for contractors - they keep on renewing every 6 months and never take contractors on permanently which is bad for morale. Silo's - lots of different groups working on their own goals with very little communication or cooperation between them. Lack of strong leadership - lots of talk but plans invariably don't last longer than 6 months without changing Over reliance on a few people - while most people don't need to crunch it invariably falls on a few to burn the midnight oil and pull things together and those are the ones who suffer the most

Advice to Management

Recognize that you are a big part of the problem and the culture you have created is toxic

The game studio is divided in siloes that don't share the same goals. This leads to dysfunctional communication, lack of progress, as well as a lack of a clear vision. Strong presence of office politics; persuade the right people, "play the game", and pretend like any issues are non-existent to maintain a facade amongst people. "Buddy politics" & nepotism. If you're friends with the right people and if your partner needs an internship, this is the place to be. Crunch and crunch. Studio claimed to have stopped crunching when I joined, but the crunch was inevitable from the start. No paid overtime of course. Lack of ambition. Whenever I found poorly architectured and written code the response was often "wouldn't be the first time, so be it" or "oh it's just an assertion". "This should really be refactored, but..". As a junior, I wanted to learn and felt I had to quit if I didn't want to be institutionalized like the seniors. Can't retain developers. Many quit so often that you barely get to know them. One reason they can't retain developers is that they don't care if their employees are happy, they wouldn't move a senior in my team after 10+ years so the dev quit. So much experience and knowledge was lost with every senior leaving. Short term thinking like this hurts the studio in the long run. Tries to build an image of being a super healthy company that has a collective bargain's agreement with the union but doesn't follow the collective bargain agreement and don't care about its sentiment. Managers said they own me in the current position I'm in, won't move me or let me control my own paths - as if I can't work with my dream position at another company. Managers have been belittling, telling me I'm naïve to think the world could be a better place, as well as telling me that the grass isn't greener on the other side. The grass was greener on the other side. I had to leave as quickly as possible. Come here if you want your passion to die.

Cons

* If you don't want to make Battlefield for the rest of your life.. don't come. :p * Design discipline is weak and treated as second class citizens. Everything is run by various art departments. Sometimes it feels like people are more concerned about their portfolio reel / nice looking trailer than they are creating a fun and engaging GAME. * EA as a publisher gives great security and comfort. But they won't give a studio more than 2 yers to make a game. You won't see too much innovation in terms of genres or design coming from a studio like DICE. you will most likely see Battlefield with maybe a new mode every two years.

Advice to Management

Focus on gameplay and design. Your games are gorgeous, but that won't keep players playing for a long period.

Most of those are recent, 2019 or 2020.

Read some of those a few months back, seems like Dice is a Cesspool at best.
 
Soldato
Joined
28 Jun 2009
Posts
11,746
Location
Łódź, Poland
It is known that high ping players can cause issues for the rest of the people on a server and it's also known that sometimes high ping players can actually have an advantage as well.
 
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