Will the top RDNA 2 GPU compete with the RTX 3070, or RTX 3080?

oldbanana · 3 Sep 2020 at 20:09

unless it`s more powerful than 3070 it`s a pointless product.

Lokken86 · 3 Sep 2020 at 20:14

I think it could be a bit more powerful then the 3070. Hopefully with more Vram.

Begbie · 3 Sep 2020 at 20:14

Martini1991 said:
Pretty sure that's not discrete GPU's.

Arguably this is more relevant ; https://www.statista.com/statistics/1131242/pc-discrete-gpu-shipment-share-by-vendor-worldwide/

So, over the last 15 months you basically see AMD sell less and less in comparison.

Sadly, can't see due to paywall :/

Martini1991 · 3 Sep 2020 at 20:14

Begbie said:
Sadly, can't see due to paywall :/

You're the one who used them as a source

View it on your phone on 4G if you must.
But alas, by Q2 2020 it's 20% AMD and 80% Nvidia.

Neither side is shining in the mid range or low end, if AMD wanted to the 5700XT would have been a £300 part tops and then they would have shone, instead they're just part of the cartel.

Poneros · 3 Sep 2020 at 20:16

It will 100% compete with the 3080 in terms of raw power. The software stack of Nvidia will still be stronger though, so it doesn't matter too much.

g67575 · 3 Sep 2020 at 20:25

It's worth noting that AMD spends a higher percentage of it's gross revenue on Research and Development than Nvidia (AMD in June - 54.2% vs Nvidia in July 43.8%).

But, Nvidia spends a lot more on R&D in absolute terms ($970 million in July 2020), because they have much higher gross revenue compared to AMD. Nvidia has spent more than AMD on R&D every year, since 2014. Before 2014, AMD spent the most on R&D. So, they have been behind in development for some time.

The other important thing is that for AMD, some of this revenue will ofc be spent on R&D for CPUs, not GPUs...

More info here:

AMD - https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AMD/amd/income-statement?freq=Q
Nvidia - https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NVDA/nvidia/income-statement?freq=Q

g67575 · 3 Sep 2020 at 21:24

Participant · 3 Sep 2020 at 21:33

Lots of pessimism about RDNA2 in this thread.

The consoles alone should tell us that RDNA2 is going to be a big deal at 2080Ti + 20%.

Lokken86 · 3 Sep 2020 at 22:00

Participant said:
Lots of pessimism about RDNA2 in this thread.

The consoles alone should tell us that RDNA2 is going to be a big deal at 2080Ti + 20%.

But the xbox is 52cus at 1.82ghz and has 12Tflops to the 5700xt's 9.7. That's only a 20% gain and not enough to close down the 2080ti. Certainly not 20% ahead of it. We also don't know how much faster the desktop one will be then the consoles. I'm guessing enough to pass the 3070 and sit right under the 3080 but it's just a guess.

g67575 · 3 Sep 2020 at 22:09

The strangest thing about the 3070 and 3080 is the 8GB and 10GB VRAM amounts. 10GB VRAM is probably enough for 4K, but 8GB seems doubtful, I've used up more than this on my R9 390 before. I think there will at least be 16GB and 20GB versions of these cards, but not necessarily TI versions. Not having a TI version would leave room for 'Super' revisions of these cards maybe late next year.

Begbie · 3 Sep 2020 at 22:09

Martini1991 said:
You're the one who used them as a source

View it on your phone on 4G if you must.
But alas, by Q2 2020 it's 20% AMD and 80% Nvidia.

Neither side is shining in the mid range or low end, if AMD wanted to the 5700XT would have been a £300 part tops and then they would have shone, instead they're just part of the cartel.

I did, didn't work

Didn't realise it was a paid site, in all honesty.

Yeah I agree, though mostly the 5700xt wad the better card in a £

erf scenario. Especially when it was discounted to £300-50.

fs123 · 3 Sep 2020 at 22:26

RDNA2 is supposed to have 50% improvement in performance per watt compared to RDNA1. If that's true then that alone would push a 5700XT sized RDNA2 gpu to 2080ti level. That's a 3070 competitor for less than £450 I expect.
Double the die size and I'm pretty sure it could get to 3080 levels and probably higher.

Lokken86 · 3 Sep 2020 at 22:32

fs123 said:
RDNA2 is supposed to have 50% improvement in performance per watt compared to RDNA1. If that's true then that alone would push a 5700XT sized RDNA2 gpu to 2080ti level. That's a 3070 competitor for less than £450 I expect.
Double the die size and I'm pretty sure it could get to 3080 levels and probably higher.

If they let it run 300w+ then why not. 5700xt is only 220w there is some headroom there.

kevman · 3 Sep 2020 at 22:43

I think amd must have something in the bag for Nvidia to go so strong on the 80 class card (102 die) and pricing.

Tute · 4 Sep 2020 at 09:23

I expect what them to do what they've been doing for the past few years - i.e leave the very top end alone (3090) because even if they could match it for less, people wouldn't buy it. Instead I expect something within swiping range of both the 3080 and the 3070.

My reasoning? Because AMD simply have to match the performance of those cards, otherwise they are in considerable trouble.

LePhuronn · 4 Sep 2020 at 15:48

Lokken86 said:
If they let it run 300w+ then why not. 5700xt is only 220w there is some headroom there.

50% performance per watt uplift. So no need to run at 300W+ if 225W gets a 50% performance boost.

Lokken86 · 4 Sep 2020 at 15:54

LePhuronn said:
50% performance per watt uplift. So no need to run at 300W+ if 225W gets a 50% performance boost.

Yeah I understand you but couldn't they then just try and increase the die and use more CUs more power delivery etc get it up to 300w and get even more out of it? Or perhaps this would cost too much to make.

LePhuronn · 4 Sep 2020 at 15:57

Lokken86 said:
Yeah I understand you but couldn't they then just try and increase the die and use more CUs more power delivery etc get it up to 300w and get even more out of it? Or perhaps this would cost too much to make.

This is why there are 56, 64, 72 and mythic 80 CU versions rumoured

Xbox Series X is already 52 CUs.

So yes, they are at least planning to scale the bad boy up. And the napkin maths I keep repeating show for some very tasty numbers, especially for the 40 CU model (tl;dr 10-15% faster than the 2080 Ti still at 225W).

KungFuSpaghetti · 4 Sep 2020 at 15:59

LoadsaMoney said:
If they are going to compete, then why aren't they getting it out now ?, why are they leaving it until (November is it?), which is a good couple of months after everyones bought a Nvidia 3000 series.

They are still fixing the black screen driver issues most likely...

g67575 · 4 Sep 2020 at 16:05

I'm pretty sure AMD have made some large improvements to transistor density vs RDNA v1, based on the 171mm squared die size (approx) of the Xbox series X GPU, with 15.3 billion transistors. I've written a bit more about this in this thread:
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/foru...sistor-density-than-the-rtx-2080-ti.18897647/

As a result, I think the top RDNA 2 GPU will double the shader count of the 5700XT.

In theory, they might have to go over 300w slightly to double the shader count, based on the assumption that each Compute Unit costs ~3.84 watts of power on RDNA 2 (200w / 52 CUs). If that's true, increasing the CU count to 80 would cost upto 307.6w of power.

AMD might be able to increase the CU count to 92 (5,888 shaders), but it could cost upto 353.28‬w of power, I doubt they could take it any higher than that.

Looking at this makes me realise that the RTX 3070 (5,888 shaders) with a tdp of 220w is actually a very power efficient design.