Is all mixed paint the right colour?

[jsmoke]

I found a company on eBay that says if you supply the colour code they will mix you an aerosol of paint using their professional mixing machines. I assume this will be as good as what you would get from a dealer, i.e perfect colour match. They are a pretty good price etc.

Not even sure if you can get paint from a dealer but will likely be pricey.

 

[Dominic-Toretto]

Is it even possible to get a perfect colour match due to the way paint ages and fades on cars? How much paint do you need?

 

[ericmcn]

They probably can get a pretty good 'match' but its wont be as good as what a pro can do by a long shot. A professional will blend in old and new paint and its more than just spraying on a colour matched can

 

[UnworthyBean]

Could be terrible, could be excellent but as above, even professional body shops will need to blend it in as you never get a 100% match unless the car is brand new and you have the exact paint used.

It would depend on what was being painted as to whether or not I'd want to go down that route

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

When I had some custom rattle cans made up years ago the mixer could tweak the formula to take account of ageing, there was a swatch with the OE code, then about 5 (from memory) tweaked versions of the formula that were slightly different
You could obviously only do this on site, but the guy did it for me and suggested which one to use, I went there specifically as I bought "off the shelf" OE code from another place and it was clearly more vibrant.

 

[jsmoke]

I have a few rust spots around arches but the rocker panels have an unhealthy amount of rust, under the wheel arches is virtually rust free so overall pretty good apart from rocker panels.

I'm just gathering materials atm.

So the process is,

Chip away any paint bubbles to expose rust.
Sand or wire brush all rust down to the bare metal. Use 40-60 grit to start then up 120 grit to finish.
Clean with degreaser or isopropyl alcohol or the like.
Apply masking tape/newspaper over nearby metal.
Apply 2 or 3 coats of primer. Let dry.
Lightly sand with about 800 grit.
Clean with degreaser.
Apply 2 or 3 coats of base paint. Let dry.
Wet??? sand with about 1000 grit.
Clean with degreaser.
Apply 1 or 2 coats of clear.
Wet sand with 1000 grit.
Buff.

Any amendments to this?

 

[Nasher]

It will be a match for the colour code, but not always for the car. You won't notice the difference it on its own but you will if you spray new paint next to it.

I think bodyshops etc make adjustments to match it to the car itself.

 

[paintguy]

I'm afraid it's much more complicated than that. If they are mixing to a code they'll get you close, but since there can be several variations of the same colour from the factory, not to mention if it's had any paint in the past, no one can guarantee a 100% match from just the colour code or name.

Take something like Ford Magnetic Grey. Our mixing computer has maybe 20 different shades for that, and even then we may have to fiddle with the recipe by eye to get it bang on. Many times we've had 2 or 3 cars of reputedly the same colour in the paintshop, and they are all a slightly different shade.

There was a time when most paintshops would have small colour chips/swatches of each variant to compare, but these days it's much more often done by a scanner (photospectrometer) which takes several "pictures" of the colour at various angles and compares them with a database. As I say though, some adjustment is still needed occasionally if an exact match isn't on file.

Then we get into a whole other story of application affecting colour too, so as you can see, just supplying a code to one of these places won't necessarily be enough for a perfect match.


Your process doesn't seem too bad, but don't sand the base colour before clear, especially if it's a metallic colour. The sanding scratches will show through. If you do have any small mammals or chunks of rock in the paint that need sanding out, apply more colour afterwards, let dry, then clear.

Also your final sand with 1000 is likely going to be way too harsh to buff up. Finishing with 1500 or 2000 will make it much easier. At work we finish with 3000 before hitting the buffer.

 

[jsmoke]

I'm afraid it's much more complicated than that. If they are mixing to a code they'll get you close, but since there can be several variations of the same colour from the factory, not to mention if it's had any paint in the past, no one can guarantee a 100% match from just the colour code or name.

Take something like Ford Magnetic Grey. Our mixing computer has maybe 20 different shades for that, and even then we may have to fiddle with the recipe by eye to get it bang on. Many times we've had 2 or 3 cars of reputedly the same colour in the paintshop, and they are all a slightly different shade.

There was a time when most paintshops would have small colour chips/swatches of each variant to compare, but these days it's much more often done by a scanner (photospectrometer) which takes several "pictures" of the colour at various angles and compares them with a database. As I say though, some adjustment is still needed occasionally if an exact match isn't on file.

Then we get into a whole other story of application affecting colour too, so as you can see, just supplying a code to one of these places won't necessarily be enough for a perfect match.


Your process doesn't seem too bad, but don't sand the base colour before clear, especially if it's a metallic colour. The sanding scratches will show through. If you do have any small mammals or chunks of rock in the paint that need sanding out, apply more colour afterwards, let dry, then clear.

Also your final sand with 1000 is likely going to be way too harsh to buff up. Finishing with 1500 or 2000 will make it much easier. At work we finish with 3000 before hitting the buffer.

Good to have a pro on hand.

Now I'm seeing that there are different types of primer, there is epoxy and filler primers and possibly others.

It's seems the ideal setup is epoxy first then filler then sand the filler as it essentially acts like body filler. I'm talking about filler primer not body filler but I guess they are related in many ways.

 

[ericmcn]

painting and general body shop work is a very skilled job, I tried to paint a rear boot lid spoiler and a bumper and it was rubbish and i had good quality rattle cans.

You never said what clear you intend to use, 2k gives a vastly superior outcome but use it with the correct safety gear or you may risk some irreversible lung damage! i had 2k clear and a respirator but i was not comfortable to use it as the filters i has were not specifically for 2k clear coats so i ended up using 1k and the result was **it.

if you have a garage, a heater, 2k clear + safety gear you may get a decent outcome, say up to 70% of what a pro could do..at best

if using 1k clear knock that back to 50%

if you dont have a garage forget it and leave it to someone who does

this is my bumper after the body shop

https://i.imgur.com/FHu3pzB.jpg

 

[Nasher]

You'd get a better finish applying the paint by brush and then sanding+polishing it smooth than trying to spray it on using cans

Which is what they did in the old days. Takes ages though.

 

[paintguy]

Good to have a pro on hand.

Now I'm seeing that there are different types of primer, there is epoxy and filler primers and possibly others.

It's seems the ideal setup is epoxy first then filler then sand the filler as it essentially acts like body filler. I'm talking about filler primer not body filler but I guess they are related in many ways.

Epoxy primer is definitely the best choice these days for bare metal. Unlike any other primer it is impervious to water too so you could leave it in that for a while if you don't have time to do everything at once. It is pretty much a pro product though, I'm not even sure if it is available for DIY.

A rattle can of etch primer, like Upol Acid 8, is a good alternative for DIY. Not as good as epoxy and will soak up moisture like a sponge of left uncovered, but will give decent adhesion & rust resistance on bare metal.

"Filler primer" covers a huge area, from rattle cans up to polyester primers, which are essentially like spray on body filler. Most spray bombs will be an air dry product, so won't have the build (thickness) of a chemically curing 2K product, and they will shrink more upon drying, but if you take it easy and build it up in layers with decent drying time in-between coats it can be perfectly acceptable. At work we use rattle can primer for many of the smaller jobs, so it's not something to turns ones nose up at, just be aware of its shortcomings and don't try and hammer it on in one go, nor expect it to cover too many deep imperfections.

 

[jsmoke]

Epoxy primer is definitely the best choice these days for bare metal. Unlike any other primer it is impervious to water too so you could leave it in that for a while if you don't have time to do everything at once. It is pretty much a pro product though, I'm not even sure if it is available for DIY.

A rattle can of etch primer, like Upol Acid 8, is a good alternative for DIY. Not as good as epoxy and will soak up moisture like a sponge of left uncovered, but will give decent adhesion & rust resistance on bare metal.

"Filler primer" covers a huge area, from rattle cans up to polyester primers, which are essentially like spray on body filler. Most spray bombs will be an air dry product, so won't have the build (thickness) of a chemically curing 2K product, and they will shrink more upon drying, but if you take it easy and build it up in layers with decent drying time in-between coats it can be perfectly acceptable. At work we use rattle can primer for many of the smaller jobs, so it's not something to turns ones nose up at, just be aware of its shortcomings and don't try and hammer it on in one go, nor expect it to cover too many deep imperfections.

Thanks. What's the name of the epoxy primer you use at work?

 

[paintguy]

Thanks. What's the name of the epoxy primer you use at work?

We don't use one here as we don't do that kind of work, just tarting up newer cars ready for sale.

I've previously used Octoral PE130 though, and have heard good things about Novol Epoxy. Both are around £140-£150 for enough to last you a lifetime. Probably not what you are looking for

 

[Lopéz]

You'd get a better finish applying the paint by brush and then sanding+polishing it smooth than trying to spray it on using cans

Which is what they did in the old days. Takes ages though.

Can't agree with that at all. I've seen plenty of really good aerosol paintwork.

 

[Nasher]

Can't agree with that at all. I've seen plenty of really good aerosol paintwork.

Its what they did with old luxury cars and their paint jobs are better than most modern ones. No orange peel effect etc. They dont do it now because of the time it takes.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Its what they did with old luxury cars and their paint jobs are better than most modern ones. No orange peel effect etc. They dont do it now because of the time it takes.

Thats 99% to do with the paint compared to the application method
Things like lead, chromium etc used to be in there in sometimes quite high levels

With rattle cans its imperative to build thin layers and develop a good spraying pattern

 

[jsmoke]

painting and general body shop work is a very skilled job, I tried to paint a rear boot lid spoiler and a bumper and it was rubbish and i had good quality rattle cans.

You never said what clear you intend to use, 2k gives a vastly superior outcome but use it with the correct safety gear or you may risk some irreversible lung damage! i had 2k clear and a respirator but i was not comfortable to use it as the filters i has were not specifically for 2k clear coats so i ended up using 1k and the result was **it.

if you have a garage, a heater, 2k clear + safety gear you may get a decent outcome, say up to 70% of what a pro could do..at best

if using 1k clear knock that back to 50%

if you dont have a garage forget it and leave it to someone who does

this is my bumper after the body shop

https://i.imgur.com/FHu3pzB.jpg

I must have missed this post.

So I'm just learning about 2k paint, it's turns out it's cheaper also than buying 1k + clear so i can't see anything obvious why not to use 2k?

As you said you should have a proper respirator though even with rattle cans.

EDIT: I've just read up on isocyanate and I think I'll give 2k a wide berth.