Kyle Rittenhouse - teen who shot three people in Kenosha

Soldato
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Honestly you seem to be going out of your way to spin their radical agenda as something righteous, it's just bizarre.

Not righteous, just not as expressed by mmj. BLM deserve plenty of criticism but let’s keep it accurate.

The lack of black fathers is precisely why the nuclear family is so important and the fact they want to disrupt that demonstrates ill intent.

I agree that the nuclear family is very important. I would much rather their efforts were focused on trying to reverse the problem of absentee fathers instead of accepting it and finding alternative solutions to work around it.

However, I disagree that it proves ill intent. They have identified a problem and come up with a solution — you may not agree with the solution but that doesn’t mean their intentions are nefarious.

As I said earlier, they aren’t calling for the abolishment of the nuclear family.

If they publish that they want to abolish capitalism on their own website it clearly demonstrates that they are a communist ideology, which is the very definition of a collectivist system that's hostile to the individual.

Where on their website does it say they want to abolish capitalism? It’s certainly not on the ‘what we believe page’ and there’s nothing I can see on there to suggest they want to replace capitalism for communism.

I think your "spidey-senses" could convince you that Stalin wasn't a communist and Hitler was a humanitarian.

Not really. I’m not one of those ‘real communism has never been tried before’ types.
 
Soldato
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Not righteous, just not as expressed by mmj. BLM deserve plenty of criticism but let’s keep it accurate.

I did, by directly quoting their website and their video interview without changing any of their words - it is your choice to interpret their direct statements in a different way. Again, I haven't changed the wording of a single thing they said, so I would say that would qualify as accurate, and I would say that changing their direct words into something they haven't said would be classed as inaccurate.

What you have done is give your opinion (no problems there, everyone's entitled to an opinion) but then you've stated that those opinions as though they are fact i.e. Well what BLM actually meant is this....... etc. I haven't tried to interpret what BLM have said, I've just copy/pasted their own words which I feel is more honest than trying to tell people that the statements the BLM's leaders have written don't actually mean what the BLM leaders think they mean.

So, to use your own words "Lets keep it accurate" so lets keep "opinion" as an opinion and "fact" as a fact and not mix the two around.
 
Soldato
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You realise what mmj originally posted (and you appear to agree with) is also just an opinion?

You say you directly quoted their website but you misquoted one sentence and your interpretation of the other requires a pretty large leap to mean what you’re suggesting it means (regardless of what I think it means).
 
Soldato
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Ignoring the fact that ‘trained Marxist’ is very odd phrasing, she also says they are “super-versed on ideological theories”, so one would assume Marxist theory is just one area that they’ve studied.

It helps to take the entire statement verbatim and see what's going on within each part of the whole.

"We actually do have an ideological frame. Myself, and Alicia in particular, are trained organisers. We are trained Marxists. We are super versed on ideological theories."

Parse that statement in the simple, standard way, and you get this:

We have a frame
That frame is Marxism
We are well read on ideological theories

What happens in the middle is she conflates "organising" with Marxism. In that conflation, she gives the game away -- when she refers to "organising", she means revolutionary action informed by Marxist theory.

Which is to say, they're "trained mobilisers". They're simply following a 1-2-3 framework for inciting Socialist revolution. It's as easy as that.

(Don't get me wrong, though, it's most certainly wrapped up inside a worthy cause.)

The verbal commitment to Marxism appearing before the statement about being educated places it as a point of focus. In fact, it's the only ideology mentioned explicitly.

This is an ownership claim made before widening the net to say "we're very educated on other ideologies too".

I mean, you could argue that she simply didn't put her statement across in a particularly clear way (though that appears to be a hallmark of this movement), so let's offer the benefit of the doubt.

But I don't think that's the case here. Arguing that they might not be a Socialist organisation at this point is like the wilfully ignorant in America who continue to say the DSA "isn't really Socialist" and "doesn't want to remove Capitalism" even though both are quite plainly stated on their website.

I can't find the specifics anymore as it was around 2017 or so when I fell out with the movement over their manifesto. This was the early days and I wanted to know more, with the intention of donating to the cause.

Unfortunately, that cause included a commitment to increasing teachings to children in black churches of "Jesus as a revolutionary". It was said in a few more words, as you'd imagine, but boiled down to using religious indoctrination to create generations of disaffected, budding insurgents (that's perhaps too harsh a word).

The site has obviously gone through multiple iterations since then, so I'd probably need to scour online commentary to find it and can't be bothered rotting my brain with that at this point, lol.

Regardless, it was very easy to put two and two together then and see that the entire thing is about control. Not liberation, not protection, not cohesion. Control, within and without.

And it's no surprise, then, that the whole thing has devolved into a religious type of fervour. Nearly every day on social media I watch people viciously gaslight, bully, belittle and accuse even their closest friends if they dare open their mouths to even question a tenet of the faith. Their so-called critical thinking is the least critical I've ever seen outside of more established fundamentalist dogma.

I've been extremely anti-theist for most of my life, studied religions, cults and the psychology that maintains them, and can spot this stuff a mile away.

But this isn't necessarily the fault of the BLM movement itself. It's caused by the genuine problems raised by that movement now coming packaged along with a monstrous form of (almost pop) Critical Theory, especially race. This will not end well, and at this point one has to assume that utter destabilisation is actually the goal -- because there's no way anyone with two functioning brain cells can think fostering division and hyper-awareness inside an already exhausted and anxious population (the result of loosening the reins too much on Capitalist exploitation) can lead to anything but a firestorm.

Still, you have to give it to them. They've played a blinder in getting it established. In some respects, this "new awakening" has plenty of positive changes it could usher in. Sadly, it appears to have taken the more ugly path in terms of communication and interpersonal relations with "non-believers" -- and once that happens, it's usually a downward spiral.
 
Soldato
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Great post @Pestilence, I agree with pretty much all of that.

As I said earlier ITT, it’s perfectly possible to use a Marxist framework without requiring the obvious Marxist outcome of a communist state.

So when you say…

Arguing that they might not be a Socialist organisation at this point is like the wilfully ignorant in America who continue to say the DSA "isn't really Socialist".

…do you believe that if they achieved some form of power, that would be their intention?

I’m talking about ‘full-blown Marxist-Leninist’ socialism, not just ‘socialised healthcare and higher taxes for the top 1%‘ socialism.
 
Soldato
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Great post @Pestilence, I agree with pretty much all of that.

As I said earlier ITT, it’s perfectly possible to use a Marxist framework without requiring the obvious Marxist outcome of a communist state.

So when you say…

…do you believe that if they achieved some form of power, that would be their intention?

I’m talking about ‘full-blown Marxist-Leninist’ socialism, not just ‘socialised healthcare and higher taxes for the top 1%‘ socialism.

Honestly, I'm uncertain. The sheer aggression and dehumanisation happening across the board, however, leads me to assume we're in the budding stages of the former.
 
Caporegime
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Great post @Pestilence, I agree with pretty much all of that.

As I said earlier ITT, it’s perfectly possible to use a Marxist framework without requiring the obvious Marxist outcome of a communist state.

So when you say…

…do you believe that if they achieved some form of power, that would be their intention?

I’m talking about ‘full-blown Marxist-Leninist’ socialism, not just ‘socialised healthcare and higher taxes for the top 1%‘ socialism.

On the black lives matter website they describe themselves as radicals so I'd be hedging my bets that they're not talking about implementing a higher tax of income rate...

https://blacklivesmatter.com/herstory/

In 2013, three radical Black organizers — Alicia Garza, Patrisse Cullors, and Opal Tometi — created a Black-centered political will and movement building project called #BlackLivesMatter.
 
Capodecina
Soldato
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. . . I am very xenophobic . . .
Xenophobia, that elegant-sounding name for an aversion to persons unfamiliar, ultimately derives from two Greek terms: xenos, which can be translated as either "stranger" or "guest," and phobos, which means either "fear" or "flight."
Sounds about right . . . although . . . fear of "change" should feature there as well.
 
Caporegime
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Kenosha shooting's suspect Kyle Rittenhouse receives $50k donation from gun rights group
'We want Kyle to have the best defense possible,' his lawyer said

The National Foundation for Gun Rights (NFGR) has donated more than $50,000 to the man accused of fatally shooting two people and wounding a third during civil unrest in Kenosha, Wis., following the shooting of Jacob Blake in August.

The gun rights group announced Thursday it is sending the check – the result of more than 1,000 donations made the NFGR to benefit Kyle Rittenhouse – to be deposited into Rittenhouse’s trust fund administered by one of his attorneys.


https://www.foxnews.com/us/kenosha-shootings-suspect-donation-gun-rights-group
 
Caporegime
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Charges relating to transporting firearms dropped.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...-rittenhouse-posts-2-million-bond-no-n1248450

Kyle Rittenhouse, the Illinois teenager charged with killing two men during the Jacob Blake protests in Wisconsin this summer, made bail on Friday and walked out of jail, officials said.

"Kyle Rittenhouse's bond was posted this afternoon at about 2:00 pm which was set up through his attorney," Kenosha County Sheriff's Sgt. David Wright said in a

All things seem to be moving in the favour of libertarians here.
 
Soldato
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Well...No. the post you've quoted was literally replying to that fact.

I think you misunderstand what I was asking.

I understand that the charges relating to him "transporting a weapon" have been dropped.

However it is my understanding that he was still under the age that he was legally allowed to own/carry that firearm, specially in that state. This is not even getting into the details of how he got the weapon in the first place.

I am just unsure about the above and how that impacts his case.
 
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