Switching from OLED to Projection.. anyone done it?

[tres]

I have a laser projector with an ALR screen and use it in daylight, without curtains or blinds or anything in the window (new build with nothing in front of us and no one walking in front!!)

 

[3t3P]

My Draper React ALR transformed a measly HW40ES, and with the Epson 9400 darastically improved the image. I do understand if people see a PJ projected onto a wall, they'd be a bit 'meh' about it, but I agree that on a nice ALR screen, it really really helps alter the perceived contrast.

Dynamic Iris, honestly I'm not sold on. My 9400 had it and it was always a second behind the complete black which a screen shows which kind of sucks.

Obviously the best thing to do is black-out the entire room and put some nice felt on the by the PJ screen.

If I can find a new house to buy, this would be first on my priority list.

I read black levels of the 9400 were comparible to the HW40? I have an HW40 it's by no means measly IMO?

We are doing a video of my setup, taking a while deciding what to talk about and why.

 

[aoaaron]

I read black levels of the 9400 were comparible to the HW40? I have an HW40 it's by no means measly IMO?

We are doing a video of my setup, taking a while deciding what to talk about and why.

After having both in house, I'd say the HW40 might actually have better black levels.

My Projector is EVER so slightly smaller than my screen, but I could never notice the black border of my PJ screen to the HW40 on films with bars.
However with the 9400 it was VERY noticeable.

The blacks looked better on the 9400 but the black bars showed IMO the real black floor. I think the common line of thought is that the 9400 has better black levels but IMO the blacks look better due to the better highlights.

I had the HW40 and the 9400 in-house at the same time when I made these comparisons.

 

[aoaaron]

Also doesn't your room have to be pretty much pitch black for using the projector?

Or light extremely controlled or restricted?

I think I'll make my own screen.

Get a massive piece of mdf. Prime it then mix up some special projector paint and I'll then create some hooks so I can hang it then also a string pulley to lift it up into the ceiling and have something nice on the other side so it becomes a feature within the room.

Ill likely pick up a top end second hand 1080p projector to begin with. Once 4k matures and prices are much better I'll upgrade.

However there is no way I could watch everything on a projector in a pitch black room all the time.

I use an ALR screen (Draper React 3.0).

I rarely had the lights on but I always had a curtain shining light into the room which wasn't drawn of the door open, and my walls were all white.

 

[Pottsey]

I don’t mean they are bad at all there is nothing bad about a big screen, and I’m in the process of pricing a PJ setup for my living room again as I really wish I didn’t get rid of mine a few years ago, but the majority of bulbs only last about 5k hours in eco and aren’t really supposed to be switched on and off like TVs, so if your using it as a tv the bulb is most likely going to degrade faster. that totally changes though when laser PJs become more mainstream.

Lasers just kind of went mainstream. Just came across the 1080p ZH403 and ZH406 for around about £1000 not read reviews yet and the 4k, UHZ65 has in some places dropped to £2,749 which is very tempting for me.

 

[Warbie]

Ill be honest ill have a budget of £3k max to get both an OLED and a projector.

I personally wouldn't for that money. Things were a little different before OLED came along and became affordable in larger sizes. We were comparing 40-50" panels with grey black levels to 100"+ images. No contest. Now we're comparing 65-80+" OLEDs with bright HDR and jet black blacks to projected images that can't, bar in a few areas, compete. In fairness, curent 4K HDR pjs look great, but they're still not in the same league and I wouldn't consider suggesting one with less than an 100" screen size. Especially in an untreated room. For 3k, get the biggest OLED you can budget/fit and bask in the unmatched PQ.

Having said that, a high end pj/screen in a treated room with a large screen is a whole different beast. I find the room is as important as the kit in it and when you're sitting in space and all you can see is a bright window into a movie with actors as large as you are, there's currently nothing that competes.

 

[aoaaron]

I personally wouldn't for that money. Things were a little different before OLED came along and became affordable in larger sizes. We were comparing 40-50" panels with grey black levels to 100"+ images. No contest. Now we're comparing 65-80+" OLEDs with bright HDR and jet black blacks to projected images that can't, bar in a few areas, compete. In fairness, curent 4K HDR pjs look great, but they're still not in the same league and I wouldn't consider suggesting one with less than an 100" screen size. Especially in an untreated room. For 3k, get the biggest OLED you can budget/fit and bask in the unmatched PQ.

Having said that, a high end pj/screen in a treated room with a large screen is a whole different beast. I find the room is as important as the kit in it and when you're sitting in space and all you can see is a bright window into a movie with actors as large as you are, there's currently nothing that competes.

As an owner of a 77 LG OLED CX, http://www.displaywars.com/110-inch-16x9-vs-77-inch-16x9. There is still a gigantic difference between my 77'' OLED and the 110'' Draper React ALR screen I've managed to snap up


I've done a blind test and sadly extended family prefer watching a film on my.. wait for it.. 1080p HW40ES.. rather than my 77'' LG OLED due to the size. Very sad days. I could see the look on my sisters face when we watched Moana on the 77'' OLED.. and it was.. bored.. whilst when we watched Doctor Sleep on the old Epson 9400, everyone was entranced and loving it.


The best thing to do, if interested in projection, is buy a cheap second hand one of a high end model... see if you are impressed by it. If you are, get an Epson 9400 which will blow away in brightness and sharpness the old one you bought...

However without an ALR screen or room treatment, I do agree with Warbie that its very difficult to chase that acceptable image.. (I'd say acceptable is mid-range plasma black levels).. and by the time we're there, a £3k budget is going to run very tight if you're buying all the equipment new.

 

[Warbie]

There is still a gigantic difference between my 77'' OLED and the 110'' Draper React ALR screen I've managed to snap up

Agreed. Around 110"-120" is as small (sounds silly saying small with these sizes) as I'd consider vs. the larger OLEDs. My main point was that before OLED/4k/HDR, the difference in PQ wasn't as pronounced between panel and projection and pj setups under 100" made more sense. These days, not so much. The lines will get even more blurred as OLEDs, or whatever replaces them, get bigger. What about when we get 100" panels? Currently, unless you're prepared to drop a decent chunk of money on front projection with screens over a certain size, I don't think it's worth it.

 

[aoaaron]

Agreed. Around 110"-120" is as small (sounds silly saying small with these sizes) as I'd consider vs. the larger OLEDs. My main point was that before OLED/4k/HDR, the difference in PQ wasn't as pronounced between panel and projection and pj setups under 100" made more sense. These days, not so much. The lines will get even more blurred as OLEDs, or whatever replaces them, get bigger. What about when we get 100" panels? Currently, unless you're prepared to drop a decent chunk of money on front projection with screens over a certain size, I don't think it's worth it.

An 88'' OLED panel is £30,000. I think we're pretty far away (years) from the 100'' panel being availble for under £30,000.

And even an 88'' panel is tiny compared to a 110'' screen. http://www.displaywars.com/88-inch-16x9-vs-110-inch-16x9
Especially if we smack some letterbox content on it.

I think 110-120'' is the sweet spot because the bigger the screen, the lower the brightness, and in PJ world we need brightness for HDR and options for dynamic tone mapping to look good.

The only 'larger' OLEDs I can think of are the 77 (£4000-£6000) and the 88 panel (£30000).

I don't consider a 65'' OLED big at all, especially compared to projection. http://www.displaywars.com/65-inch-16x9-vs-110-inch-16x9


I do agree in that the gap with HDR content is bigger than what it was with plasma. I think an ALR screen + a good projector would = with the lights off a plasma picture, there or there abouts. Now you need to treat your room and buy a JVC projector probably to get close to the OLED black levels. Also dynamic iris is now not as useful.. we need high contrast panels to map HDR and cannot rely on just closing the iris.

 

[Warbie]

Yeah, it'll be a good few years before get 100" panels at an affordable price. Perhaps less than we think tho. I'm currently designing a dedicated room with front projection in mind, but will be catering for that eventuality. If something like Samsung's The Wall takes off, or panels just get big and cheap, pjs won't last much longer.

 

[3t3P]

Gaming to us now on a 55'' TV is total yawnfest.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

I personally wouldn't for that money. Things were a little different before OLED came along and became affordable in larger sizes. We were comparing 40-50" panels with grey black levels to 100"+ images. No contest. Now we're comparing 65-80+" OLEDs with bright HDR and jet black blacks to projected images that can't, bar in a few areas, compete. In fairness, curent 4K HDR pjs look great, but they're still not in the same league and I wouldn't consider suggesting one with less than an 100" screen size. Especially in an untreated room. For 3k, get the biggest OLED you can budget/fit and bask in the unmatched PQ.

Having said that, a high end pj/screen in a treated room with a large screen is a whole different beast. I find the room is as important as the kit in it and when you're sitting in space and all you can see is a bright window into a movie with actors as large as you are, there's currently nothing that competes.

Actually going to end up spending a huge chunk now on main bathroom.

Got garage conversion, log cabin, en suite, main bathroom and a new car to buy. So I'm currently eyeing up the 75" Samsung TU8000 which is the best budget 75" screen according to rtings. I've pretty much always bought high end, Panasonic plasmas and Samsung plasmas and then Sony, falds and a top of the range LG when I moved in a few years back.

I'm going to see if I can compromise on quality for now and go for size because it's only £1100. I have a Sony FALD in the bedroom and top LG in the living room which cost a fortune.

Worst comes to worst I'll just get a 65 or 75 inch oled to replace it in a few years after all the projects are done and paid off.

 

[Warbie]

Actually going to end up spending a huge chunk now on main bathroom.

Got garage conversion, log cabin, en suite, main bathroom and a new car to buy. So I'm currently eyeing up the 75" Samsung TU8000 which is the best budget 75" screen according to rtings. I've pretty much always bought high end, Panasonic plasmas and Samsung plasmas and then Sony, falds and a top of the range LG when I moved in a few years back.

I'm going to see if I can compromise on quality for now and go for size because it's only £1100. I have a Sony FALD in the bedroom and top LG in the living room which cost a fortune.

Worst comes to worst I'll just get a 65 or 75 inch oled to replace it in a few years after all the projects are done and paid off.

Makes sense man and 75" is hardly small. Much of this is subjective, but after owning a bunch of pjs and 5-6 screens of varying budget (diy, bought, high gain, neutral, white, grey), I feel if you're not in a treated room (or have an expensive alr screen - which have their own downsides) with a screen over a certain size, it's not worth the hassle.

 

[aoaaron]

Makes sense man and 75" is hardly small. Much of this is subjective, but after owning a bunch of pjs and 5-6 screens of varying budget (diy, bought, high gain, neutral, white, grey), I feel if you're not in a treated room (or have an expensive alr screen - which have their own downsides) with a screen over a certain size, it's not worth the hassle.

Great point. I just got a deal for a 110’nch alr screen Which is ceiling mounted and electric tab tensioned for 450 quid so I’m good to go.

I think a lot about projection is timing on the second hand market, there were plenty of x7900 going for 2.5k a year ago and now no where to be seen.

best time to buy a projection will be next year as they all refresh then. Its super expensive needs a lot of space so I understand people’s apprehension regarding getting into it.

 

[Warbie]

Great point. I just got a deal for a 110’nch alr screen Which is ceiling mounted and electric tab tensioned for 450 quid so I’m good to go.

I think a lot about projection is timing on the second hand market, there were plenty of x7900 going for 2.5k a year ago and now no where to be seen.

best time to buy a projection will be next year as they all refresh then. Its super expensive needs a lot of space so I understand people’s apprehension regarding getting into it.

Sounds like a good deal on the screen. Yeah, the second hand market can be great with pjs, or buying stock close to eol. The x7900 is very nice. You're right about the expense and there's also the hassle. Some people don't like being in a dark enviroment whan watching movies, or tinkering with kit to get it just right. I do think the writinmg is on the wall for pjs tho. Next 10 years or so? If/when it happens it'll be a shame. People talk about the superior PQ offered by panels based on measurements, but there's something that's just nicer, more analogue and real about a projected image. It doesn't matter how much you dial in a current panel, there's always a digital look.

 

[aoaaron]

Sounds like a good deal on the screen. Yeah, the second hand market can be great with pjs, or buying stock close to eol. The x7900 is very nice. You're right about the expense and there's also the hassle. Some people don't like being in a dark enviroment whan watching movies, or tinkering with kit to get it just right. I do think the writinmg is on the wall for pjs tho. Next 10 years or so? If/when it happens it'll be a shame. People talk about the superior PQ offered by panels based on measurements, but there's something that's just nicer, more analogue and real about a projected image. It doesn't matter how much you dial in a current panel, there's always a digital look.

I agree. If we can shift panel sizes to 100-110'', I think anything outside of people who can house gigantic 150'' screens is gone.

However, I'm not sure if manufacturers will want to produce panels that big. I think its too costly and they'd rather stick to the 55-75'' screen sizes.

I also do agree. Projector motion and image quality is something a digital panel can't easily recrearte.

 

[Jez]

Personally i would never swap my projection setup for any TV, although mine is in a dedicated home cinema room set up specifically for it.

Obviously have TVs around the rest of the house including our lounges and playrooms etc, i'd not advocate a projector in a living room environment personally, as really, you do need total light control and a perfectly square setup to enjoy one. The audio setup to accompany a projector also doesnt suit a lounge for general TV viewing at all really.

I have had projectors for years, ever since Barco 9" CRTs ruled the roost, and for me, a TV looks nothing like a projected image. For better or for worse, a projected image, to me, feels cinematic, a huge TV just feels like a huge TV. The image is too bright and just looks wrong to my eye.

 

[tres]

I disagree with the light control. We don't have blinds or curtains on the bay window directly opposite the ALR screen and it still looks wonderful

 

[Jez]

I disagree with the light control. We don't have blinds or curtains on the bay window directly opposite the ALR screen and it still looks wonderful

Probably your screen making the difference My 150” electric screen is literally around 20 years old (although still perfect) and is from the days of a CRT Barco projecting into it.

 

[tres]

Probably your screen making the difference My 150” electric screen is literally around 20 years old (although still perfect) and is from the days of a CRT Barco projecting into it.

Yes definitely, watchable but in bright direct sunlight it was very washed out. Amazed at the difference the screen made.